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Timo
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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Location: Kaoss central, England
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 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Mac vs. PC... that old chestnut. Thought these elitist arguments had long since elapsed! 
Running Win 10 x64 on i7-6700K o/c 4.4GHz w/ NVMe SSD and GTX1070, love it.
Also running Win 10 x64 on a Q9450 2.67GHz. Boots in seconds, and equally floats like a butterfly in use. You would never believe it is, in fact, 10yrs old! In its time it has run XP-32, Vista-64, Win8-64, Win8.1-64 and now Win10-64. I'd even say it runs Win10 faster today than it did XP all those years ago. (Vista was by far the worst, however).
Try running the latest OS X.11 (El Capitan) on a MacPro 1.1 from the same era.  No? Unsupported. Maybe try the second-to-latest OS X.10 (Yosemite)..? Nup. Or the third-to-latest OS X.09 (Mavericks)...? Still, no. Come on, fourth-to-latest OS X.08 (Mountain Lion), surely? Nope. Try OS X.08 (Lion), ah, at last! Oh bugger, all the latest software and hardware is incompatible and unsupported.
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Timo wrote: | Mac vs. PC... that old chestnut. Thought these elitist arguments had long since elapsed!
Running Win 10 x64 on i7-6700K o/c 4.4GHz w/ NVMe SSD and GTX1070, love it.
Also running Win 10 x64 on a Q9450 2.67GHz. Boots in seconds, and equally floats like a butterfly in use. You would never believe it is, in fact, 10yrs old! In its time it has run XP-32, Vista-64, Win8-64, Win8.1-64 and now Win10-64. I'd even say it runs Win10 faster today than it did XP all those years ago. (Vista was by far the worst, however).
Try running the latest OS X.11 (El Capitan) on a MacPro 1.1 from the same era. No? Unsupported. Maybe try the second-to-latest OS X.10 (Yosemite)..? Nup. Or the third-to-latest OS X.09 (Mavericks)...? Still, no. Come on, fourth-to-latest OS X.08 (Mountain Lion), surely? Nope. Try OS X.08 (Lion), ah, at last! Oh bugger, all the latest software and hardware is incompatible and unsupported. |
thats really,,,, OLD
I wouldn't expect much from a computer from 2006.
Even my car is younger , 2009.
I get your point, and I like utility and longevity. But I am a realist esp when it pertains to technology and these big cos.
I have better things to do than debate A vs B , simply because both can be equally true. There is no shortage of corner cases
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SanderXpander
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| You just spent an entire thread on longevity. |
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Joe Gerardi
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: |
Yep Linux is great....
Untill you want to run your favourite software on it.... to find out the professional package you need is not available on Linux..
If you are going to run linux, you need to be prepared to accept that it comes with different software then you are used on windows and mac.... most software is just as functional... tough much less refined where it comes to interface and extra options.. |
Have you never heard of WINE? It pretty much runs everything Windows on Linux. Also, most Linux guys can find something 90% or more of what they want on Sourceforge, and generally for free.
I'm not a Linux-only guy. I DO have an iPad (iPad 1, but I hardly ever use it) I have a couple of Windows devices, a Sun SunBlade 1000 and a Silicon Graphic Octane I use for hurricane modeling as UNIX boxes, and an EEE PC 900A (which I still love!) Linux box. There is no one thing I advocate over the other, because everything does something the best. (Oh, yeah: I just remembered I have a Sun V60x server in my rack that I use for Linux testing. Forgot about that one.)
Honestly, the only thing I don't see a use for is the Mac OS- it's a fork (offshoot, actually) of UNIX, and as such, really doesn't offer anything exciting.
It's kind of like MS Office these days. Why use it when I can get OpenOffice (which used to be Star Office from Sun) for free?
But everyone is entitled to their favorite- that's the beauty of choice. But there is no one thing better than anything else, and a pissing contest by fanbois only shows their immaturity.
..Joe
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Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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Timo
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 3109
Location: Kaoss central, England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | thats really,,,, OLD
I wouldn't expect much from a computer from 2006. |
You'd be very surprised. In Windows and general apps (not DAW usage) it's almost identical to my newest PC. Any noticeable differences are more down to SSD vs. the HDD in my old system, rather than any advances in the CPU. Of course when it comes to DAW usage or ray-tracing there is a large difference, but it's not as considerable as I would have liked (given the cost of my latest PC, and the decade that has elapsed between them)! Even with hyperthreading it's perhaps 3x times faster overall, dropping to 2x faster when comparing individual cores/threads.
Given AMD's lacklustre competition over the last decade, Intel have been spending nearly all that time decreasing the size of the die and adding (useless to us) things like mobile features and onboard GPUs, rather than concentrating on continuing performance related to Moore's law. CPU performance has largely stagnated, so almost any Intel architecture over the last decade (Nehalem, Westmere, Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell) is entirely capable of running the latest Windows OS comfortably, with near full compatibility.
Also recently installed Win10 x64 on a Sony Vaio FW31E laptop (2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo T6400) circa 2009. Boots from cold onto Windows desktop in under 10 seconds, and that's even with a cruddy old 5600RPM internal HD.
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | | Bachus wrote: |
Yep Linux is great....
Untill you want to run your favourite software on it.... to find out the professional package you need is not available on Linux..
If you are going to run linux, you need to be prepared to accept that it comes with different software then you are used on windows and mac.... most software is just as functional... tough much less refined where it comes to interface and extra options.. |
Have you never heard of WINE? It pretty much runs everything Windows on Linux. Also, most Linux guys can find something 90% or more of what they want on Sourceforge, and generally for free.
I'm not a Linux-only guy. I DO have an iPad (iPad 1, but I hardly ever use it) I have a couple of Windows devices, a Sun SunBlade 1000 and a Silicon Graphic Octane I use for hurricane modeling as UNIX boxes, and an EEE PC 900A (which I still love!) Linux box. There is no one thing I advocate over the other, because everything does something the best. (Oh, yeah: I just remembered I have a Sun V60x server in my rack that I use for Linux testing. Forgot about that one.)
Honestly, the only thing I don't see a use for is the Mac OS- it's a fork (offshoot, actually) of UNIX, and as such, really doesn't offer anything exciting.
It's kind of like MS Office these days. Why use it when I can get OpenOffice (which used to be Star Office from Sun) for free?
But everyone is entitled to their favorite- that's the beauty of choice. But there is no one thing better than anything else, and a pissing contest by fanbois only shows their immaturity.
..Joe |
I like your post.
You mentioned a few products from Sun Microsystems, where I was gainfully employed for +5 years. AFAIAC, they have a solid place in computing history if it is ever written properly
and Silicon Graphics, what a good memory. A killer machine back in the day
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Achieve your musical dreams
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jeremykeys
Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 3092
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I though Commodore was the best!
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Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| jeremykeys wrote: | | I though Commodore was the best! |
Long live Atari 800 !
I could brag I have 30 yr old cartridges that still work but I bet nobody cares
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| I don't want to spoil the party, but what is this thread doing in the Latest News section? |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | I like your post.
You mentioned a few products from Sun Microsystems, where I was gainfully employed for +5 years. AFAIAC, they have a solid place in computing history if it is ever written properly
and Silicon Graphics, what a good memory. A killer machine back in the day |
I liked Sun stuff. I refuse to call them Oracle as long as that "S" logo is on mine.
I first started with a SPARCstation 5 when I set up a very early Firewall 1. That tells you how far back it was in the days of the internet. We screwed up the configuration so bad, that anyone outside could get in with full rights, but no one in the inside could get out. 
Sun just made damn good equipment. Heavy duty. And to this day, my preferred desktop anywhere is still CDE. Though, SGI's FSN (pronounced "Fusion) - which everyone saw in "Jurassic Park:" "This is a UNIX system: I know this!" would beat it had they ever finished it. I still have a basic working copy.
My SunBlade 1000 has dual 750 mHz processors in it, and still runs blazingly fast. Most people aren't even aware what a RISC computer is, or how they work, but I've always loved them for their speed.
..Joe
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Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | | GregC wrote: | I like your post.
You mentioned a few products from Sun Microsystems, where I was gainfully employed for +5 years. AFAIAC, they have a solid place in computing history if it is ever written properly
and Silicon Graphics, what a good memory. A killer machine back in the day |
I liked Sun stuff. I refuse to call them Oracle as long as that "S" logo is on mine.
I first started with a SPARCstation 5 when I set up a very early Firewall 1. That tells you how far back it was in the days of the internet. We screwed up the configuration so bad, that anyone outside could get in with full rights, but no one in the inside could get out.
Sun just made damn good equipment. Heavy duty. And to this day, my preferred desktop anywhere is still CDE. Though, SGI's FSN (pronounced "Fusion) - which everyone saw in "Jurassic Park:" "This is a UNIX system: I know this!" would beat it had they ever finished it. I still have a basic working copy.
My SunBlade 1000 has dual 750 mHz processors in it, and still runs blazingly fast. Most people aren't even aware what a RISC computer is, or how they work, but I've always loved them for their speed.
..Joe |
excellent knowledge, Joe
Please excuse the old commercial- Sun was the guts/raw iron behind many a corporation as these corps had to get into eCommerce and have a viable business presence or store on the Internet.
Sun was the ' anti Microsoft '. There was a long time heated rivalry between Gates and Scot Mc Nealy ( the Sun founder and President). Sun was the only large organization that held MS' feet to the fire to be more open.
Unfortunately, its a riches to rags story, as with many tech cos. They really had
no choice but to agree to the Oracle buy out offer. I don't even know
if any of the products continued as I have been out of the picture for some time.
Some of you young whipper snappers could do well to learn about this history.
Old News is often more important to understand than the Latest " news ".
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BobTheDog
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1535
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | | Bachus wrote: |
Yep Linux is great....
Untill you want to run your favourite software on it.... to find out the professional package you need is not available on Linux..
If you are going to run linux, you need to be prepared to accept that it comes with different software then you are used on windows and mac.... most software is just as functional... tough much less refined where it comes to interface and extra options.. |
Have you never heard of WINE? It pretty much runs everything Windows on Linux. Also, most Linux guys can find something 90% or more of what they want on Sourceforge, and generally for free.
I'm not a Linux-only guy. I DO have an iPad (iPad 1, but I hardly ever use it) I have a couple of Windows devices, a Sun SunBlade 1000 and a Silicon Graphic Octane I use for hurricane modeling as UNIX boxes, and an EEE PC 900A (which I still love!) Linux box. There is no one thing I advocate over the other, because everything does something the best. (Oh, yeah: I just remembered I have a Sun V60x server in my rack that I use for Linux testing. Forgot about that one.)
Honestly, the only thing I don't see a use for is the Mac OS- it's a fork (offshoot, actually) of UNIX, and as such, really doesn't offer anything exciting.
It's kind of like MS Office these days. Why use it when I can get OpenOffice (which used to be Star Office from Sun) for free?
But everyone is entitled to their favorite- that's the beauty of choice. But there is no one thing better than anything else, and a pissing contest by fanbois only shows their immaturity.
..Joe |
I still have an Indigo, Octane and a Fuel in the loft. When i first got the Fuel the front door immediately fell off, a sign of what was to come!
I used to work for SGI on the larger boxes and the workstations were used as overpowered terminals really. My favourite was an altix dev machine we had with 1024 processors (dual cores), it used to compile our projects like a bat out of hell.
Nice to know an Octane is still being used somewhere. |
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BobTheDog
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1535
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | | Bachus wrote: |
Yep Linux is great....
Untill you want to run your favourite software on it.... to find out the professional package you need is not available on Linux..
If you are going to run linux, you need to be prepared to accept that it comes with different software then you are used on windows and mac.... most software is just as functional... tough much less refined where it comes to interface and extra options.. |
Have you never heard of WINE? It pretty much runs everything Windows on Linux. Also, most Linux guys can find something 90% or more of what they want on Sourceforge, and generally for free.
I'm not a Linux-only guy. I DO have an iPad (iPad 1, but I hardly ever use it) I have a couple of Windows devices, a Sun SunBlade 1000 and a Silicon Graphic Octane I use for hurricane modeling as UNIX boxes, and an EEE PC 900A (which I still love!) Linux box. There is no one thing I advocate over the other, because everything does something the best. (Oh, yeah: I just remembered I have a Sun V60x server in my rack that I use for Linux testing. Forgot about that one.)
Honestly, the only thing I don't see a use for is the Mac OS- it's a fork (offshoot, actually) of UNIX, and as such, really doesn't offer anything exciting.
It's kind of like MS Office these days. Why use it when I can get OpenOffice (which used to be Star Office from Sun) for free?
But everyone is entitled to their favorite- that's the beauty of choice. But there is no one thing better than anything else, and a pissing contest by fanbois only shows their immaturity.
..Joe |
I still have an Indigo, Octane and a Fuel in the loft. When I first got the Fuel the front door immediately fell off, a sign of what was to come!
I used to work for SGI on the larger boxes and the workstations were used as overpowered terminals really. My favourite was an altix dev machine we had with 1024 processors (dual cores), it used to compile our projects like a bat out of hell. I loved that machine.
Nice to know an Octane is still being used somewhere. |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: |
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An Altix?
The BEAST!
How many cabinets?
I kinda still want an Indigo 2- they were cool boxes.
I use the Octane for modeling. Before fast internet, NOAA would send out the data packets for the model you used. (The models were all free- I use the GFDL.) The packets are HUGE- 1.3 meg of plain text, which you import into the Octane, and then let it cook for about 8 hours to get a mediocre graphic of the hurricanes in the Atlantic, the same one they get.
Or, you can now go to the site, click and get a much better graphic in 3 seconds! 
Living in the hurricane belt, I enjoy the process. And, I'm running a much higher average of hurricane landfall than NHC, but that's because I only do it for myself, not the populace: if I'm wrong, I'm the only one who suffers any consequences.
My all-time favorite was Katrina: seeing how much energy it pulled out of the water was eye-opening.
,..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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BobTheDog
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Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1535
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I never actually saw the 1024 cpu 4700, hidden in a basement somewhere. I guess it was pretty big though.
We had a single cabinet one sitting in the office (annoyingly noisy) and that was 64 processors, I'm not sure you could get many more cpus than that in a cabinet. So possible 16 cabinets for the compute modules. I'm a software guy so don't know too much about the physicality of these things
When SGI went Into chapter 11 and lots of people lost their jobs their were crap loads of workstations and machines going spare, you couldn't give them away. Of course by that time no one wanted SGI workstations!
Your hurricane stuff sounds interesting, it's amazing how technology moves on. |
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