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Kronos 2 - What am I missing ??
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NormC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
I just feel that Kronos with the touch interface and huge GB should be better than the felling I get from it considering we are in 2017. Hardware workstations and also the Kronos somehow always feel 5 to 7 years behind the current music tech point..

I guess I just want more Very Happy But perhaps it does just not exist Shocked
If the Kronos were a 2017 product you might be right. It was developed in 2010 and released for sale in 2011 so it is 5 to 7 years behind in some aspects. It is still hard to beat with today's products.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeyd wrote:
Not sure what anyone can say to change your mind but I think Benny said it best. You either like it or you don't. I think both things you are concerned with are as someone else said, subjective.

Touchscreen works fine for me. It took some getting used to coming from a Triton Studio to an M3 to the K. But it function just fine for me.

The pianos are fine. I was playing last night in a rehearsal running my KRONOS through my amp, no stereo, and was thinking how good the pianos sound. I was using everything from the German Grand, Berlin Grand, Rhodes type patches, and Chorused Electric Pianos.

I'm not sure what you're looking for but if you like the NORD go for it. There is never a perfect keyboard as I'm sure you know. I, like so many others on the KRONOS forums are happy with it.

Good luck in your quest.


I know the Kronos records beautifully. Most instruments , esp the pianos shine, even in a mix
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormC wrote:
xmortenx wrote:
I just feel that Kronos with the touch interface and huge GB should be better than the felling I get from it considering we are in 2017. Hardware workstations and also the Kronos somehow always feel 5 to 7 years behind the current music tech point..

I guess I just want more Very Happy But perhaps it does just not exist Shocked
If the Kronos were a 2017 product you might be right. It was developed in 2010 and released for sale in 2011 so it is 5 to 7 years behind in some aspects. It is still hard to beat with today's products.


I agree that the VI's are going to 'sound' more impressive. Like you say, its easier to go up against a +6 year product , esp. since many of the VI's are specialized.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
I have only tried with headphones so far Very Happy

But thanks a lot for the many responses:)

I dream of a workstation that has a DAW/Vst like sound quality and a less fiddly hardware interface - but perhaps thatīs simply to much to ask in 2017 ??

Touching my ipad or the upcomming MPC live makes me think they do not put up to date touch tech in the Kronos and when Iīm looking at the GB available for samples I am hoping that Korg could move into Ivory teritory but to my ears that is somehow not the case.

I would be over the moon with a version that had better pianos and a 2017 touch responsive interface and especially some more touch friendly software with big knops and less clutter. To me the software does not look optimised for finger touch -hence many people need a stylus to program the Kronos...

Very Happy


for $3000 , you could be thinking long term. You don't have to, of course.

We had an excellent discussion here ( 2 weeks back) about longevity and reliability over the next 15 yrs re: the various platforms
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voip
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kronos screen is pretty responsive, but needs a point touch e.g. fingernail or stylus to get the best out of it. Kronos acoustic pianos are pretty good and relatively uncoloured. Keyscape pianos, on the other hand, sound as if they have been "beefed" up to a degree by effects. Their sound is rich, but slightly unnatural.

.
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
I have only tried with headphones so far Very Happy

Before I bought my Kronos last fall, I tried all the best keyboards from all brands. First time in cheap headphones. Everything sounded cheap, from the Kronos to the Montage to the Nords, etc. Another time, using excellent headphones. Day and night. You simply can not evaluate nor judge a digital instrument using less than excellent headphones.

xmortenx wrote:
I would be over the moon with a version that had better pianos and a 2017 touch responsive interface...

Like anything else, one gets used to it. After calibrating the screen to the angle you will use, it's very easy to control any small object on it.

Finally about the pianos or any instrument on any digital keyboard or synth, there are the preset sounds and the ones you will create later. A long time ago, after using Kurzweil 250 sounds for a decade and then upgrading to their newer model, I initially disliked the newer pianos even though they were superior in quality. I changed my mind after some time of course. Lots of preferences are linked to habits.

I own a grand piano and play lots of advanced classical solo répertoire. The Kronos Berlin Grand sound is excellent at emulating the sound of a real grand. Not necessarily the preset programs. Once you adjust it to your taste and preference, it's very good for classical piano.

I also use my own custom velocity curve for it. IMHO the Korg RH3 keyboard is of much better quality than the Fatar ones found on other brands. So in short, use those numerous parameters, change the velocity curve to your liking and you've got excellent and realistic piano sounds.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mentioned bad touch response but never mentioned if you ever went into the touch calibration to set the touch response to your finger?
The touch response is per user and you have to set it up to your touch.

Same with the matter of sound taste, it is very much a synthesizer at heart and when you try the EP's and Pianos in their most basic form, you are not getting the full range of sounds they can give you after applying effects and trying out all the parameters around the sounds. You can literally shape your sound to what you want. You may not get past 8 velocity parts per OSC where Spectrasonics would get you twice as many, but you can put in your own samples and even rip them from Spectrasonics.
I like Yamaha EP's, i like Roland sounds but the combined total of Kronos makes it worth it to have along side a decent software suite.

I thought that anyone up to the challege of using Kronos, would expect to pair it with a good DAW set up and with Spectrasonics(my favorite so far) to cover the limited sound options in Kronos.
Have you checked out the third party sound sets that can be added to Kronos? There are more sounds available to Kronos than can be banked in one loading, and some of those sounds are better than what comes in the factory set.

You get a Kronos and Spectrasonics and you will be covered. The computer will be able to have kronos editor on it to take you away from a lot of touch screen action and Spectrasonics will fill in with the sounds you prefer. No keyboard is matching spectrasonics out there today. Spectrasonics focuses on sounds more than anything else and it shows. Korg focuses on hardware more than anything else and kronos shows that in being a fine piece of hardware.
Just remember, expecting more out of a kronos for the price it lists is unrealistic when you recall that Kronos came as an upgrade from OASYS which cost twice as much with half the GB. Kronos has a smaller screen and one or two missing tricks from OASYS but it has a lot more added beyond OASYS. All at half the OASYS new purchase cost.
Roland and Yamaha latest workstations are not going to give you such a large touch screen and hardly as much control surface or functions behind the controls. They all have less GB than Kronos even though some sound categories on Roland do a bit better than the same in Kronos. Supernatural in Roland is unique and Super knob on Yamaha is unique but the sum total of what you get in one workstation is better in Kronos.
Karma is a deal maker on Kronos, the sequencer is great and when you add a DAW and maybe a few cheap side pieces of hardware, you will be hardly able to find anything to make you regret paying up for Kronos. Sxcept waiting for Kronos 5.

Waiting for a Kronos 5 is not a bad idea if you are not serious about digging into music before getting too old to know the difference between your finger and your toes. I waited by my Triton Extreme all the way up to Kronos-2 (skipped 3 series, OASYS, K-1 and K-X) and even went a few years with no rig at all. I rented an acoustic piano once in a while or played a borrowed 61 key Yamaha basic electric piano, just to keep my practice up. If you get a kronos now and trade up to a Korg flagship 3 series into the future, things will go a lot easier upgrading because there is a lot to learn in Kronos and you will only be farther behind the learning curve without as early a start as you can. The Jump from Trito Extreme to Kronos 2 made for easy basic use of Combi, sampling, sequencer, Global and disk mode in Kronos, but i had a lot of catching up to do with Karma, routing, IFX and more.

Its up to you ,but Kronos has a lot going on and more than any of the Music store people could ever help me understand. I bet there are few stores out there with a person who really knows kronos well, one who is available on the floor to show you what Kronos can do.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is obvious. Korg has never promised a Kronos 3 or a Kronos 5

It is strictly assumption that korg is even working on an answer to the successful Kronos 2

Kronos 2 is very popular from what I see . It's a desirable board with existing owners even thinking of having a 2nd Kronos

That should say it all
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kronoSphere
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Xmortenx,
Before siting in front of a Korg Kronos : just come with a musical idea (yours preferably) and then start to play Kronos with this idea. You will change your mind. Satisfaction garanteed ! Very Happy
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xmortenx



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
Hello Xmortenx,
Before siting in front of a Korg Kronos : just come with a musical idea (yours preferably) and then start to play Kronos with this idea. You will change your mind. Satisfaction garanteed ! Very Happy


That is actually a wonderfull idea instead of just focusing on raw sounds sounds Smile

Gonna watch a tutorial about the sequenser. To me it looks very fiddly especially paired the one touch screen. I hope I can build a full track and edit stuff without massive backpain on that little screen...

Smile
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4GodnWV
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
1: The Touchscreen. Itīs feels pretty oldschol and unresponsive and also combined with the a pretty non touch friendly software with tiny synths and boxes.

Touchscreen might just need calibrated. I just use my finger nail. Works remarkably well, imo


xmortenx wrote:
2: The Grand Pianos and Epīs - though huge in size they do not come close to any software or just the Nord Grand Piano 3D..

Were you playing in mono? I ran into problems until I went stereo. Next time you are visit the music store take headphones. Magic!
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Schmooster
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
I know I should move on - but Iīm just fed up with working on a DAW Smile I think I just somehow love the idea of the Kronos but am disapointed with the execution.....

With regards to opinion about the subjective quality of the piano samples. I think itīs fair to say that if one user prefers one rhodes over another within Spectrasonics Keyscape - "then itīs just their opinion, mann". They are all superbly sampled and if one prefers one keyboard over the other itīs down to taste.

However with regards to the piano samples of Kronos, I do not think itīs just a matter of me not liking that sound - there a plenty different pianos in there. I just feel the realism and quality of the samples feels a tad on the wrong side of 2010. The realism is just not 95% like Ivory or Nord 3D..

However Ivory is in the DAW and Nord is too stage oriented

Very Happy


What are you listening to it through to make such comparisons? I think that might be what you're missing here - firstly the calibration, and secondly if you're testing this with headphones then ask the store tech to switch to 'audience' perspective otherwise it sounds like shite, especially when some smart arse has given you studio high impedance phones - I obviously can't say for certain this is the problem but listening to 'out of the box' sounds from power-up does not give you a true feeling for any workstation - they should be set-up and amped in a sound room. Yamaha are great out of the box whereas Korg need 'personalising' to optimise - Kurz are even worse out of the box but can't be beaten once set-up - in my humble opinion. You get out what you put in - for the cash this board has no competition and that's just a simple fact; you can put whatever sounds you want into it so your argument isn't really convincing of anything except one badly set-up example I'm guessing.
Also as I've been saying for years - if all you want is bread and butter sounds then once you find a flute that sounds like a flute (for example) just how much more like a flute should it sound with every new generation? You can't blame the hardware for that.
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Bitflipper
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not recommend the Kronos as a primary DAW. Compared to any computer-based DAW it's klunky and awkward. There are simpler standalone hardware multi-track recorders, if that's the route you want to take. I'll take a desktop computer with two monitors over any hardware unit.

For live use, though, the Kronos is pretty durn good. The Set List feature alone sells it as a live performance instrument.

Yes, sometimes the touch screen is fickle - it's good they include "are you sure?" prompts to avoid disastrous mistakes. But precise operation with your finger isn't terribly difficult, just a skill you have to acquire with practice. Using a touchscreen stylus helped me a lot when I was getting started, but I don't need it anymore.

As for the piano samples, I think they're pretty good, too. And there are a LOT of them to choose from! I do use Keyscape alongside Kronos, but for the EPs, not the acoustic pianos.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xmortenx wrote:
The realism is just not 95% like Ivory or Nord 3D..

However Ivory is in the DAW and Nord is too stage oriented

Very Happy


Perhaps you are listening to an alternate universe's Nord. I'm familiar with the one in this universe, and it's not what I would call a competitor to either the Kronos or Ivory (which are pretty close IMO - I have and use both). The Nord cuts through a live band - cool. More realistic? Ummm, not IMHO.
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Schmooster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitflipper wrote:


Yes, sometimes the touch screen is fickle - it's good they include "are you sure?" prompts to avoid disastrous mistakes. But precise operation with your finger isn't terribly difficult, just a skill you have to acquire with practice. Using a touchscreen stylus helped me a lot when I was getting started, but I don't need it anymore.



Fickle compared to what? It's no more 'fickle' than an iPhone or iPad - it's the exact same technology.
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