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Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject:
Actually - even as a CS80 owner - that's not too bad a release. The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't include the ring modulator - that'll be a separate release costing, I believe, over a grand in its own right.
But - for 3-4 grand - even if not modelled on the CS80, an 8-voice analogue module like that - that's dual channel, and with polyphonic aftertouch - is pretty cool.
And again my question has got to be: Why stop there? Why not release the keyboard version too - OK I accept they're a pretty small company - but they show that Yamaha could do it if they wanted.
As to your point of bring on the crap - the point again is - fine - but - what if every company only brought out crap? Behringer's business model only works because others are bothering to innovate, create new synths, and quality synths. And what if everybody said that in every walk of life? It's a race to the bottom.
And - is THAT the extent of your joy, desire and ambition?? Wouldn't you prefer to be working with amazing synths? For me, sitting at a CS70M, a JD800, a Minimoog, a Juno 106 or a CS80 - each is sheer pleasure that never grows old. By converse, the keyboard of the Reface CS is already a huge disappointment, while the faders on the JU08 are 11mm (yes mm) long - allowing for only the crudest of sound manipulation (and WAY worse than the Jupiter 8 ). Where's the fun in that? At it's simplest, the "D" is going to feel cheap, provide little scope for sound design and be really fatiguing to use for any length of time. It just won't be a good "synth" experience.
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject:
Apologies, Kevin
It must have been late and I was speed reading (been some very long days away from home for the past few weeks), but I read your posts and thought that you had not compared them. Re-reading them I cannot see how I came to that conclusion. My bad.
I would still be interested in a blind test for the fun of it. _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject:
No apology needed Derek - and as said to clarify - it's not actually that I don't like the Behringer D or SE02 - they are very respectable sounding synths and these companies have 'nailed' build quality and reliability - it's just that the Minimoog does, genuinely, have a distinctive sound, widely recognised.
And again - the Behringer D in itself is not the issue for me - what sets me off is the way Uli Behringer attacked Moog's business model in announcing it - nothing against the synth itself. I should retract calling these instruments "junk" - they are not that in any way.
Joined: 31 Jul 2015 Posts: 271 Location: Central Florida
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
So:
- You're saying The Behringer D is an evolution of the Minimmoog
- You've written off an entire genre of music as crap
- You're dismissing the notion of integrated synthesizers
- You're dismissing the notion of performance as important
- You're falsely saying that multi-keyboard setups are gone (have you checked the keyboard rigs of - like - ANY current band, from any genre?
I've seen lots of current bands. Most don't have keyboards, and the ones that do mostly have only one. All in all it's very depressing to me.
I said the Behringer Model D is an evolutionary response to the changing marketplace.
I've said NOTHING about performance being unimportant -- I have no idea where you got that. Nor have I said anything about specific genres of music. (If you think I was disparaging to Rick Wakeman, you're very mistaken, although I think I'm more of a Keith Emerson fan.)
If I was disparaging of integrated synthesizers, why the hell is a Kronos the bottom of my stack?
You're reading an amazing amount of stuff that I didn't say; perhaps you were responding to someone else? (Quotes are useful.) Either that, or you're making a great many assumptions. _________________ Fred
Joined: 31 Jul 2015 Posts: 271 Location: Central Florida
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject:
Broadwave wrote:
Oh, dear... I'd better not mention Deckard’s Dream then
$3749... and "No single part of a circuit is equal to the CS-80"
That's a bummer right from the start!
I was seriously thinking about one, but the lack of a commercially available polyphonic aftertouch keyboard that was also a traditional style keyboard put me off. The best thing about the CS-80 was the polyphonic aftertouch (in my opinion -- others may disagree), and it didn't seem like it was worth it to me without one.
I was also a bit hesitant to make my first soldering job in decades be that big. Fear.
Yes, I know about the polyphonic keyboard you can build (who's name escapes me right now). But it's on back order, and (again), I'd have to build it. I'm not sure I have the time. More fear.
Hey, if Behringer makes the 2600 and it works in a Eurorack system, I'll get my soldering skills working on some DYI modules to go along with it. Screwing up a hundred dollar module seems much safer than screwing up a three thousand dollar synthesizer. (A boy can dream.) Hopefully it'll include a MIDI to CV section so I don't have to buy a keyboard and a crap ton of matched resisters. (Are those keyboards available anymore?) _________________ Fred
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject:
fcoulter wrote:
Hopefully it'll include a MIDI to CV section so I don't have to buy a keyboard and a crap ton of matched resisters. (Are those keyboards available anymore?)
I built a 3620 keyboard (which includes a simple PIC based step sequencer) to go with my 2600. I had to cannibalize a keybed from an old organ and repair all the Kimber Allen contacts - not a lot of fun when you need 2 busses, but at least you can buy 0.1% 100R resistors these days (1% unmatched is fine too)
Joined: 06 Oct 2012 Posts: 534 Location: Savannah, GA
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject:
fcoulter wrote:
The keyboard ecosystem no longer supports the Rick Wakeman approach to keyboards, where the keyboardist would be surrounded by a crap ton of keyboards. Instead, they want lean and mean keyboard sections. Additionally, a single MIDI controller can have a good keyboard feel, good controls, and control many of those "little boxes". This wasn't an option when the original Model D was introduced.
I gotta disagree with you here, and as supporting evidence, I would ask:
Where is the Kronos "little box?"
Where is the Roland FA "little box?"
Where is the Krome "little box?"
Where is the Jupiter-80 "little box?"
Where is the Yamaha MX-series "little box?"
Where is the Nord Lead "little box?"
Unfortunately rack synths have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo. Desktops take up 2/3 the space of a keyboard version, so they aren't a good answer.
It's not "evolution:" it's "economics." The reason the makers have been getting rid of keyboards is because they can sell them cheaper. Thus the lack of AT, thus the use of 4-octave keyboards, thus the use of crappy keybeds- the main source of interface to those of us that still play with more than one finger.
And actually, the "option" of a remote keyboard was VERY available at the time, and could be easily used. The synth keybeds back then use CV (Control Voltage) to change pitch. Every synth back then had CV Input, and most had CV output jacks so that other devices could control them. As long as you used a 1 Volt-per-octave controller, you could use any keyboard you wanted with the Mini.
..Joe _________________ Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II.
I use the Krome in the opposite way. For me it's a keyboard, and a MIDI sequencer. I use the pianoroll to do detailed edits of what my sloppy playing got in - and in fact for some things the step edit is really useful.
Then I have an ecosystem of little boxes that connects to it.
Did you know that you could automate every parameter of a streichfett from a Krome? Delicious morphing soundscapes.
Joined: 06 May 2015 Posts: 219 Location: Garden State
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject:
Ladies and Gentleman, start your Model D's and let the comparisons begin ... Jareth is in the house!!!
https://ask.audio/articles/behringer-d-minimoog-clone-first-beta-test-video-from-moog-expert _________________ Korg Kronos II - Instant Karma's Gonna Get You, Synth Wars - The Rise of the KARP 2600, OBX8 Kenobi - The Return of the Synth, KARP & Odyessey, Moog One - The Poly Menace, Vintage 2016 Model D, Voyager of Sinbad XL, Fooger Family of Six, Three Mothers Like No Others, Naboo Royal MiniTaur, MoogClaraVox, Criklon V2, in living color, Elektron RytmII Avenue, Neuman U67
Would anybody like a deadpool on how long it is before someone declares that they sound nothing like each other, and how anybody who disagrees must have a tin ear, and how the beta testers are obviously bought off with the massive purse of Uli?
The betting windows are open ...
(Honestly, from everything I've heard so far, if I wanted the Minimoog sound, I'd get the Behringer D and not shed a single tear.)
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject:
Ha sounds great and its just a compressed video. I'm in like Flynn and I don't even need it! Who's letting people place preorders!
This synth leads me to wonder if there is a VST/AU that would allow polyphonic playing of multiple external synths. Anyone know of anything like that? I did try to google it but came up with nothing really.
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:20 am Post subject:
Bertotti wrote:
Ha sounds great and its just a compressed video. I'm in like Flynn and I don't even need it! Who's letting people place preorders!
I've not seen anyone taking preorders yet, and the price still has to be confirmed by Behringer (rumors are that Streetwater's $299 was a publicity stunt!) - But even at the assumed $399, I'm in.
I don't need the complexity of the SE-02, as I'll be tearing it down and modding as much as I can to get the most out of it. _________________ Synth DIY Projects
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