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Jesus
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Greece
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 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: Kronos sends midi ch. 1 and 16 simultaneously (problem) |
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Hello everybody!
I am facing a weird problem with my Kronos. I 've set the global midi channel to 16 because I have an external stage piano controller set in midi channel 1. My previous combinations that I 've made are all ok!
BUT
When I 'm going to make a new one (combi) the kronos plays both in channel 1 and 16!!!!
Any suggestions? |
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timg11
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Here is I what I find with my Kronos 2 when I set global channel as 16, and start with an Init Combi:
Only channel 16 is sent out MIDI. (so your title "Kronos sends midi ch. 1 and 16 simultaneously" is not what I see)
Playing the keyboard will play both Timbre 1 (on Ch 01) and Timbre 16 (on Ch 16) (I think this is what you mean is the problem).
In P2 Timbre Parameter / MIDI, Timbre 1 is shown as 01, and 16 is shown as 16G.
Any Timbre that is set to MIDI Ch 1 will play along with the Global Channel if Local Control is On
If Local Control is set to Off, the Kronos keyboard will not play on either Timbre 1 or 16.
I tested with an existing Combi.
The used timbres in that combi were set to Gch, not 01. They continue to play with GCH set to 16.
Timbre 16 was unused, set to Off and Muted. I copied in a program, and it played when set to 16G, Gch or 01.
The first four Timbres that were set to Gch also play if set to 01.
I reviewed section Global Mode / Global P1 MIDI / 1-1a MIDI Setup in the Kronos Parameter Guide. I did not find any explanation on why MIDI channel 1 seems to be handled "special" and responds to the keyboard when a Global Channel other than 1 is used.
Options I can think of:
1) Turn Local Control off, and route the Kronos MIDI out back into MIDI in. (recall that only Ch 16 is sent out MIDI)
2) Change your piano controller to a different MIDI channel, and leave the Kronos with Global Channel 1. (This is what I do)
_________________
Kronos2 73, Presonus StudioLive, Cakewalk / Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 |
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Jesus
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your answer. You 're right. My Kronos plays both Timbre 1 (on Ch 01) and Timbre 16 (on Ch 16)
| Quote: | | In P2 Timbre Parameter / MIDI, Timbre 1 is shown as 01, and 16 is shown as 16G. |
That is correct!
| Quote: | | Any Timbre that is set to MIDI Ch 1 will play along with the Global Channel if Local Control is On |
I don't think it should be like that. Because if this happens I would have problem and with my older combis.
| Quote: | | If Local Control is set to Off, the Kronos keyboard will not play on either Timbre 1 or 16. |
Correct
| Quote: | | Timbre 16 was unused, set to Off and Muted. I copied in a program, and it played when set to 16G, Gch or 01. |
I didn't understand  !
You 've set your global midi channel to 16 and you copied a program in timbre 16 and played in either Gch, 16G or 1????
| Quote: | | Turn Local Control off, and route the Kronos MIDI out back into MIDI in. (recall that only Ch 16 is sent out MIDI) |
I can't do that since I 'm using my midi in port from my controller.
| Quote: | | Change your piano controller to a different MIDI channel, and leave the Kronos with Global Channel 1 |
This was the first solution that came into my mind but the problem here is that when I have a gig sometimes they bring me stage pianos (low budget) that cannot send midi channel other than 01!!! |
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timg11
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesus wrote: | I didn't understand !
You 've set your global midi channel to 16 and you copied a program in timbre 16 and played in either Gch, 16G or 1???? |
Correct. The Combi did not use Timbre 16. I copied a program into it, and set its MIDI channel to Gch, 16G or 1, and it played from the keyboard.
| Jesus wrote: | | This was the first solution that came into my mind but the problem here is that when I have a gig sometimes they bring me stage pianos (low budget) that cannot send midi channel other than 01!!! |
MIDI converters like MPU-103 used to be widely available, but are rare now since almost every controller (even the cheapest) allows setting MIDI channel. It may be non-obvious and difficult to figure out how to change the channel (like pressing some button, plus a key, or similar). You might have to search on the Internet. But if you really can't change the channel the MPU103 would be an option.
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Kronos2 73, Presonus StudioLive, Cakewalk / Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 |
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jgale
Joined: 19 Feb 2021
Posts: 10
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Kronos sends midi ch. 1 and 16 simultaneously (problem) |
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| Jesus wrote: | Hello everybody!
I am facing a weird problem with my Kronos. I 've set the global midi channel to 16 because I have an external stage piano controller set in midi channel 1. My previous combinations that I 've made are all ok!
BUT
When I 'm going to make a new one (combi) the kronos plays both in channel 1 and 16!!!!
Any suggestions? |
I had a similar issue. I use my midi controller on Ch1 and set the Kronos Global Channel to 2. Some Combis were playing both sounds on Ch1 and CH2.
It turned out to be a Karma setting that had Midi Thru Enabled.
Try this:
- Select your Combi
- Select Karama
- At the bottom of the screen are the 4 Karama parts
- Try unchecking the Midi Thru checkbox |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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loiscr
Joined: 22 Mar 2021
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Kronos sends midi ch. 1 and 16 simultaneously (problem) |
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| Jesus wrote: | Hello everybody!
I am facing a weird problem with my Kronos. I 've set the global midi channel to 16 because I have an external stage piano controller set in midi channel 1. My previous combinations that I 've made are all ok!
BUT
When I 'm going to make a new one (combi) the kronos plays both in channel 1 and 16!!!!
Any suggestions? |
After several days of going crazy, I think I have found where the error is.
It turns out that Karma is redirecting and "duplicating" the Gch midi data to Ch1.
If you go to the KARMA / GE SETUP / KEYZONES tab, look at the bottom, where it says "MIDI I/O"
You will see that by default it is set that karma in (A) everything that it receives through the CH channel is forwarded to channel 1.
This is working EVEN though karma is turned off (YEAH, MY FRIEND).
For this reason, in global mode if we indicate that we do NOT want channel 1 to be global, channel 1 continues to play, because even if we have set ch5 as global (for example) karma continues to transmit from global midi to 1 and 1 continues to play.
That is why 1 always continues to work, because even if we deactivate it, karma continues to pass the information to it.
Note that if you put in midi I/O Gch to Ch2 now it will be channel 2 that will always play even if we put in global that the global channel is 7 for example.
That's where all the problems come from. And now all the problems you explained make sense.
I don't know what the solution is the best to disable this repetitive routing. What I have done has been to put in MIDI (I/O) in the karma modules (A, B, C and D) input ch 16 and Output CH 16 and Timbre Thru OFF for more security.
So the karma repeater router does not hear and does not speak at all. I have sacrificed channel 16 because I don't use it and because I don't use karma. What if you use 16 or use karma, you will have to see how you configure it, but you already know where the problem is and what you have to adjust with!
I guess this is correct on KORG's part, but it's a bit "cheating" to leave that routing active there by default, since it makes you go crazy and don't know where the failures come from.
I hope I have helped you even if it is late, I was very happy to have discovered it, because I thought it was a Korg problem and I was not going to be able to do what I wanted with the Kronos.
Remember, it's not enough to just turn off the Timbre Thru, you also have to do something with the karma Midi I/O routing to make the problem go away. And it doesn't matter that karma is turned off, the forwarding of the channel produces the same. |
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AdamT
Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Kronos sends midi ch. 1 and 16 simultaneously (problem) |
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| loiscr wrote: | | Jesus wrote: | Hello everybody!
I am facing a weird problem with my Kronos. I 've set the global midi channel to 16 because I have an external stage piano controller set in midi channel 1. My previous combinations that I 've made are all ok!
BUT
When I 'm going to make a new one (combi) the kronos plays both in channel 1 and 16!!!!
Any suggestions? |
After several days of going crazy, I think I have found where the error is.
It turns out that Karma is redirecting and "duplicating" the Gch midi data to Ch1.
If you go to the KARMA / GE SETUP / KEYZONES tab, look at the bottom, where it says "MIDI I/O"
You will see that by default it is set that karma in (A) everything that it receives through the CH channel is forwarded to channel 1.
This is working EVEN though karma is turned off (YEAH, MY FRIEND).
For this reason, in global mode if we indicate that we do NOT want channel 1 to be global, channel 1 continues to play, because even if we have set ch5 as global (for example) karma continues to transmit from global midi to 1 and 1 continues to play.
That is why 1 always continues to work, because even if we deactivate it, karma continues to pass the information to it.
Note that if you put in midi I/O Gch to Ch2 now it will be channel 2 that will always play even if we put in global that the global channel is 7 for example.
That's where all the problems come from. And now all the problems you explained make sense.
I don't know what the solution is the best to disable this repetitive routing. What I have done has been to put in MIDI (I/O) in the karma modules (A, B, C and D) input ch 16 and Output CH 16 and Timbre Thru OFF for more security.
So the karma repeater router does not hear and does not speak at all. I have sacrificed channel 16 because I don't use it and because I don't use karma. What if you use 16 or use karma, you will have to see how you configure it, but you already know where the problem is and what you have to adjust with!
I guess this is correct on KORG's part, but it's a bit "cheating" to leave that routing active there by default, since it makes you go crazy and don't know where the failures come from.
I hope I have helped you even if it is late, I was very happy to have discovered it, because I thought it was a Korg problem and I was not going to be able to do what I wanted with the Kronos.
Remember, it's not enough to just turn off the Timbre Thru, you also have to do something with the karma Midi I/O routing to make the problem go away. And it doesn't matter that karma is turned off, the forwarding of the channel produces the same. |
This might be what’s happening with me for my issue with pads on my other topic I created. Has to do with the MIDI channels and the global channel.
I never thought of Karma being the issue but now I will have to go check it out! |
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