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Aliasing Face-off
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Aliasing Face-off Reply with quote

After reading* about the near zero-aliasing oscillators in Melda's MPowerSynth I decided to do a shootout between my synths. Below are screenshots of spectral analyses displaying information from C5 sawtooths running at 48kHz/24bits. They are listed from worst to best. I'm not distinguishing between saw-up and saw-down waveforms as that's just a matter of polarity and won't effect the results of aliasing.

*referencing the "It just sounds superb..." section of this article: https://www.meldaproduction.com/technology/oscilators

Just so you know, all Kronos waves are from the S/P DIF digital output so it is an absolutely pure no-noise representation of it's oscillators.

Bazille:

Bazille sort of has the worst parts of analog and digital. It's analog noise on top of digital aliasing. What a dirty beast.

HD-1:

This is the stock single wave saw in HD-1. The SawUp-Pro5 waveform probably fared the best surprisingly but it was still nothing to write home about.

Retrologue:

Again mimicking the noise of analog hiss, Retrologue does what it set out to do.

MS-20EX:

Interesting how the MS-20EX engine is mimicking the noise from the analog outputs of the original unit; that noise is only present on key-on, even if the oscillators are turned all the way down in the mixer section.

Zebra:

I honestly expected U-he's Zebra to fare better in this showdown. Maybe there are some oversampling options I'm not aware of.

PolysixEX:

Probably the most perfect example of aliasing on this list.

MOD-7:

For some reason I expected MOD-7 to be the same as AL-1. Thumbed through the manual to discover it's oscillators do not use the same low-aliasing tech.

Alchemy:

Alchemy's sawtooth was the same whether in virtual analog or additive mode.

AL-1:

From the manual, "ultra-low-aliasing oscillators, based on new, proprietary technology". Enough said.

MPowerSynth:

The winner and the most newly developed engine on this list so I guess that isn't too much of a surprise.
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Last edited by CharlesFerraro on Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:04 am; edited 8 times in total
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comparison. I'll have to try my own.

Busch.
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voip
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, it would appear that from the HD-1 downwards (with downwards being better), the "spurious" components would be inaudible, since they are at least 45dB below the "wanted" signal fundamental frequency and its harmonics, and therefore well below the masking threshold.

.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
So, it would appear that from the HD-1 downwards (with downwards being better), the "spurious" components would be inaudible, since they are at least 45dB below the "wanted" signal fundamental frequency and its harmonics, and therefore well below the masking threshold.

.


Well yeah all these synths are pretty top notch. In fact I don't know of any modern synthesis engine where you can hear aliasing right out of the gate. I generally only ever run into audible aliasing when I'm purposely using a decimator effect.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well these are sort of "ideal" conditions. Pitch modulation or fx use can aggravate the artifacts significantly.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With both the HD-1 and the AL-1, make sure that Drive is bypassed (not just set to 0).
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
With both the HD-1 and the AL-1, make sure that Drive is bypassed (not just set to 0).


Yes I was keen on that.
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BobTheDog
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just been looking at the oscillator video for MPowerSynth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OZ9eouu2Q

Some quite interesting stuff there.
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enigmahack
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobTheDog wrote:
I have just been looking at the oscillator video for MPowerSynth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OZ9eouu2Q

Some quite interesting stuff there.


There's a LOT of very cool stuff happening in there. The biggest thing I've wanted for a while was to be able to draw my own waveforms. That's awesome!

So when can we get this in the Kronos? Wink
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BobTheDog
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I downloaded it to try it out but the installer on mac was an executable which wanted my password. So I just deleted it.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enigmahack wrote:
There's a LOT of very cool stuff happening in there. The biggest thing I've wanted for a while was to be able to draw my own waveforms. That's awesome!

So when can we get this in the Kronos? Wink


MPowerSynth probably has the best graphical interface for drawing your own waveforms that I know of... but plenty of other synths will allow you to do the same thing including U-He's Zebra and Bazille synthesizers. You can even get freeware in the form of Zebralette for Zebra. Then there's Beatzille or BazilleCM which are dirt cheap ($5) condensed versions of Bazille from Beat magazine and Computer Music magazine respectively.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobTheDog wrote:
I downloaded it to try it out but the installer on mac was an executable which wanted my password. So I just deleted it.


Most if not all installers require an admin password; this is required by the system, not the installer per se.
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SeedyLee
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for conducting this analysis, was really interesting to see the results.
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BobTheDog
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
I downloaded it to try it out but the installer on mac was an executable which wanted my password. So I just deleted it.


Most if not all installers require an admin password; this is required by the system, not the installer per se.


I don't mind giving a .pkg mac installer my password, give a .app (executable) installer your password and you are mad.

Edit some more details:

A .pkg file when it asks for your password doesn't enable the developer access to the password, it is secure.

A .app file is the actual developer asking for your password, at this point the password can be saved away, sent over the internet or whatever they want to do with it, even change it.
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Joe Gerardi
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
In fact I don't know of any modern synthesis engine where you can hear aliasing right out of the gate.


Casio XW-P1. You can easily hear aliasing as low as the octave above Middle C. Between that and the "clacky" keyboard, it was the reason I quickly got rid of mine.

..Joe
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