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[tand]

Hi there guys. I have read some threads in the forum saying about to buy (or have) an separated analog synth.

So, why buy an analog synth instead of using the Kronos built-int emulations? Kronos has the AL-1, MS-20 and PolysixEX. The sound difference is so big justifying to buy an real analog synth?

I have made some presets with AL-1, and I was pleasant with the sound i got from it. Use it with my micro-key. But I've never had a real analog synth.

So, is the difference brutal (in a gig or mix) or that is just a hype from purists?

I'd like to know you opinions in terms of final practical sounds, what Kronos can achieve (or not in anyway).

Have a great day folks.

[pete.m]

I think that some of it is definitely just hype from purists, and it is the same whether you are talking about analog synths or vintage drum machines. It's fine if you're devoted to a particular analog synth, but I have to say that I am simply not interested in an exact emulation of a classic sound - what I want is a sound that I like, and that will work well in my pieces.
It should be said that I am only focussed on making my own music and am not one of the many forum users who use the Kronos professionally to play covers - their situation is, of course, a little different. But I think that, with a little work, it should be possible to do virtually everything you want on the Kronos. The advantages to that approach are that you come to understand the Kronos better as a result, and also don't need to blow a lot of money on 'authentic' analog gear.

That said, I do have other (fairly inexpensive) synths - including VA - that I use in order to broaden my palette. But, even with those, I don't get hung up about authenticity.

[psionic311]

Kronos synth sounds are close enough if you're trying to emulate a certain sound from a cover song.

Of course, a good deal of the quality of the sound is dependent on the quality of the programming. Sure you can layer, detune, modulate, and mix up virtual synth types and get closer and closer. However, beyond that, there are certain limitations to each engine, with the biggest factors being oscillators and filters.

But there is a certain shrill or flatness or sterility to the virtual sounds, as compared to a "living" analog sound. It is most noticeable when playing in the context of a loud band mix, trying to compete with distorted guitars and drums and noisy crowds. If you're looking for a certain juiciness, a richer texture, low and low mid throb, and a general pleasant fullness, then an analog goes a lot further towards those goals than virtual synths do.

There's this thing called the 80/20 rule, where about 80% of the overall effect comes just from 20% of the causes or contributing factors. For most, VA synths with FX and great playing are more than enough. But if you are looking for that extra je ne sais quoi, that 95% and higher that gets you an A+ instead of a B+ or A-, then you will find analog the more proper tool for the job.

FWIW, here is how I rank my synth arsenal, in terms of quick and dirty beefiness. Each by itself can sound great, but when doing side by side comparisons, through a quality stereo PA with subs (not headphones!), there is a definite hierarchy of thickness. YMMV

HD1 < AL1 < Poly6 < MS20 < Integra <Micron < OB6 < Minitaur < A6

[Sharp]

Purists will tell you Analog sounds better, but in reality it all just a matter of opinion. Just like those who think Vinyl Records better.

The only organic and alive thing about analogs vs VA's is the humans debating the subject.

Regards
Sharp.
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[pete.m]

Well said, Sharp!

[Joe Gerardi]

Because it sounds different. Digital cannot emulate the sound of Analog. it does not have the bottom end, the tubbiness, the buzz. Those of us that have owned and played analog can hear the emptiness of the life of an analog signal path in a digital medium. Otherwise, we'd all just own VAs and be perfectly happy.

And if you want analog, it's the only way to get it.

It's akin to piano. the corollary here is why not used a Casio home keyboard as your piano sound? It's close enough... Who cares about string resonance or pedal thunks? Instead of all that money for a Kronos, a Casio PX-5S is really ALL you need, right? I mean, it has a Hammond sound, it has the Hex Engine for synth sounds. The Kronos is really overkill, and hence, not necessary either, right?

Is also something akin to the way that no matter how synthesis evolves, one cannot get a great violin sound. Strings, yes; solo violin: no. That's because of the intricacies of the sound of a violin- there's at least 11 different ways to play any note in terms of attack, timbre bow technique, and other string techniques I won't bore you with. The sound is too alive to re-create on a static machine like a synth.

..Joe
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[jimknopf]

[geoelectro]

One other reason for having an analog is for all the knobs. Having a dedicated knob for each feature makes playing it live easier and more fun. For those of us that had analogs first, not having the dedicated knobs feels like a loss. I'm forced to program ahead of time and forfeit much tweaking during live play. Of course you can tweak on the Kronos with some planning. Perhaps it's the planning that takes away from the spontaneity.

I love my Kronos and play and program it all the time. I keep thinking I should get an analog for the fun of it. Like a Moog Sub 37 with all those lovely knobs! It's just that it's monophonic. Or a Dave Smith OB-6 but that costs more than my Kronos did...uugh

Geo
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[benny ray]

If you have owned a analog synth you can really hear the difference it's warmer and thicker compared to digital synths. IMHO an old OBX-A would be my dream synth. I am waiting on Behringer to come out with their version on the OBX-A. I love the synths on the Kronos they just have a different subtle sound that is a little different from an analog synth. Just a matter of opinion but the Kronos has the most powerful synths in a keyboard that is VA.
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[laandodeman]

I love the Kronos but it is soooo easy to make the fat analogue sounds with just a few twists on the hard ware knobs my Prophet 6 or Moog Voyager....

But it is not only that: analogues really do cut a lot better through the mix when you play live.

I tried recreating it on the AL1 and though I think it is one of the best VA's around, it's just not the same as the real deal.
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[Dniss]

I never thought analog vs digital quality of sound was open for debate. At least to my ears.

But hey, like someone else said, if you like your sound thinner, who could argue with that?

That being said, the Kronos is very close and has amazing sounds. But it's a giveaway when getting into higher octaves IMHO.

[amit]

Analogs do have their charm etc,
From recording point of view and in the mix good digital emulations work as well (kronos has plenty of them).
I have heard people talk about phatness etc, tbh I have heard Paaaatt Nuffi sounds coming from a complete digital engine I.e MOD-7. In most moderate mixes you are likely gonna HP the track anyway to make it sit with everything else.

I have a mono analog sitting beside Kronos that I absolutely love and might get some another, but that does not mean Kronos lacks something sonically etc, there are at times many other factors like knob per function etc. I find it easier to dial in and fine tune sounds on a physical (not necessarily an analog) synth as opposed to screen.

A good synth is good synth be it analog or digital. If you are satisfied with the output of either, that is the best for you, regardless of what anyone else says.
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[spaceman3]

When it comes to analogue synths, they make me feel sort of by polar.
I hate them because they go out of tune.
I hate them because most of the better one's are pricey.
I hate them because they seem limited in the sounds they make.
I hate them because they break down far to easy.
I hate them because of the hype over them.

I love them because they have endless sounds (with exception of most real world instruments like guitars,choirs, and so on)
I love them because there are a some analogues that do have thier own subtle, or less subtle kind of sound vibe going on.
I love them because of nostalgia (even tho i hate admitting that one)


There isnt to many analogue synths that i could say, yeah, i would love to have that synth.
I like the CS 80.
I like MOOG's, but mostly for the filter.
I surprizingly like the BEHRINGER DEEPMIND synths.
They hava a smokey quality i like, and they have some YAMAHA CS mojo to them.
And they are priced right.

At the end of the day, my KRONOS satisfies so well i can live without an analogue synth.
Thats just my subjective opinion and preference.



Please know when i use the word hate, i do not mean it in the truest sense of the word.

[aron]

> If you have owned a analog synth you can really hear the difference it's warmer and thicker compared to digital synths

I know people say this but it depends.

Yes, a minimoog is fat- but that's because of the 3 oscillators and the detuning and circuitry. But other analog synthesizers are not fat. At least not fatter than the Kronos. In fact, with the Kronos effects it is way bigger sounding than most analog synths. Now, yes, you an add a delay, etc to an analog to make it sound bigger but now you are carrying extra stuff.

Also, some analogs have a hi pass filter on the signal chain to limit the low frequency response - see Micromoog. Others like the Sequential Pro One are not big and fat like the Mini. Consider the CS-01 which I guess has a DCO, along with the JX-3P which is pretty thin sounding considering.

Despite what people say, the JP-8000 can sound very analog and smooth and it can have a deep, rich bass sound.

BUT I will agree that the Kronos which can model analog synthesizers - could still be improved as opposed to something like the JP-8000 or even the MS-2000.

I mention these synthesizers because I have them all.

Minimoog, Micromoog, OB-1, Sequential Pro One, CS-01, JX-3P, JP-8000, MS-2000R.

I love the interface.
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[Kontrol49]

if you can do it all with one instrument then thats fine,theres no rule thats says you have to own 1 or 10 instruments or Analog or Digital.

I'm sure if I spent more time programming the Kronos I would be able to eliminate 75% of my synth collection but then again I could also do that with the Virus TI,or sample everything to put the samples in my Nord Wave but I Don't get the same gratification on a programming level as some of the more immediate synths I own,like the Moog Voyager/DSI Prophet 6,it's all about the ease of use for me,and what fits my working methods at the time.There are days when I can spend hours programming sounds on the Kronos,other days when I would rather the immediacy of a more simple Analog.

For me its more of a personal relationship with each instrument,The Voyager is a basic synth in comparison to the Kronos but it has just sum of parts to make it a wonderful instrument to play and program,I have a different relationship with both instruments,its not just all about what sounds best,it goes beyond that with the more immediate analog counterparts,digital isn't better or worse than Analog and vice versa It's more how you interact with those instruments.

For me when I see these debates about analog synths are better than digital it's normally from the ignorant types who on a real world level simply need a way to justify purchases for "Vintage Analog"...I'm sure they'll be the same group of Morons who are now selling their "Vintage Digital Korg M1"...You'd be surprised the amount of digital stuff being sold now using buzz words like warm and vintage to bolster the Interest on a well known Internet auction site its nothing to do with the sound because whats sounds warm or analog is subjective.

I have long believed that the term warmth has been linked to older Vintage synths mainly because those that own them tend to be middle aged collectors who's hearing range has starting to dull...everything else that is digital sounds full of high frequency content to them making them sound cold....So as convinced as some may feel analog is better,with the correct filtering and Eqing its totally possible to replicate analog warmth or dullness on a digital...

Even comparing two Digitals like Kronos and the 01W there is a "Warmth" that's easily heard between the two digital instruments and thats down to the sound Quality and sample rates used between the two...So what exactly is warmth....It's the same type of ideology thats the difference between what one person calls art and another person call trash....its a personal thing,I don't really see the point in the all the number crunching and bits and bytes and waveform discrepancies analogies that go on between Analog and digital debates its all Bullshit anyway.

I get frustrated by most synths nowadays anyway,for a long time the original Vintage synths were made to emulate real instruments,then sampling came along and finished them off,now we spend thousands on newer digital synths that are always referencing the Vintage stuff with hundreds of Minimoog sounds or copying the sound of a TB303 inside its factory banks.

For years recording artists tried to remove all the noise artefacts of a real piano to make the sound clean as possible and now we are emulating them and adding those imperfections back inside our synths to mimic the sounds of a real piano,the manufacturers don't really help the cause neither as it gives leverage to those in the same way who compare Real Analog to Virtual it's always down to the imperfections so there those who can say It doesn't sound as good as the real thing.