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[Drama]

Hi i have just bought kronos to finish all the working procedure without a computer. But i was embarrassed to see the effect system in the sequencer mode.
In the sequencer mode, there is 12 ifx slot, which can be shared by 16 track
wheres motif can assign each effect to each track.
The problem of this routing system is the kinds of effect that each track can use are limited, and it's unable to adjust effect level for each track respectively but in the ifx page which can be shared all tracks, so every track that shares same effect must get same output level.
Is my understanding right?
Or is there another way to assign effect and its level respectively?

[SanderXpander]

On the Motif each track can only have one IFX I think. You could set up the IFX on the Kronos the exact same way, you just get the OPTION for more advanced routing, I don't see how this is "embarrassing".

[Schmooster]

Insert FX have always been shared between tracks on any workstation sequencer, its only a PC that allows as many as you have memory - that's why we use PC's. 12 stereo insert as well though don't forget - I don't know if you can double up on mono FX but 12, plus Master FX plus EQ - that's a lot of polyphony gone. These days I tend to think of the onboard sequencer as more of a sketch pad - a bloody powerful one granted. The sad fact is on a lot of boards, including this one, the sounds are too FX heavy, you can't get many into the sequencer before you're all done - now that we have an embedded PC it's time we had a dedicated DSP. All those fancy engines - they're all just software - it's got 1 engine, HD-1, which if I'm not hugely mistaken started out life on the Pa1 as HD? No?
The other engines I've got far better VST's doing a far better job - the more I go into the Kronos the more I see little bits of everything but not a great deal of anything in particular - except the piano and HD-1. Seriously - what does it really offer that a decent laptop can't replace other than that? I'm sure it's the M3 keybed as well on the K61, which is on a MIDI controller somewhere.... maybe. I haven't a bloody clue, it's all the bleach - keeps me up talking shite.

[StephenKay]

The Motif (XS and XF) have a total of 16 IFX that can be allocated to up to 8 individual tracks (2 each). It looks good, but it's way different than Kronos.

If you turn on the IFX for a track, you have allocated 2 IFX to that track only. The 2 IFX are stored with the voice. If you want to change them to something different, or alter any of their settings, you must edit the voice (create a new voice, or a mix voice that is stored with the song.) So, for example, if you wanted to put the same delay effect on 3 different tracks, you would need to turn on the IFX for those 3 tracks (thereby using 6 IFX, even if you don't want to use them all), and then set all 3 of them to have the same delay effect and the same settings (since tracks cannot share IFX, unlike in the Kronos), likely requiring creating new voices since they don't all have the same delay stored with voice.

This could be done with 1 IFX in the Kronos, without modifying any programs.

On the other hand, you can have 8 tracks with 2 individual dedicated IFX each in the Motif.

I've used them both and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Completely different systems and approaches.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com

[Schmooster]

Yeah, isnt that what I said, in another language? No - no it isn't.

So no difference between stereo or mono then? You don't get 4 mono in exchange for 2 stereo FX? Why am I even asking?

So Stephen, tell us more about the Kronos 3...... OR:

Are we ever gonna see a new KARMA GUI? Some skins maybe? I'm sure some will be put off by it's retro 16-bit look.... I know I'd certainly buy it again (had the Triton LE version - loved it) - it deserves a face that matches it's body, it's a bobfoc only in software (body off Baywatch, face off Crimewatch)... No? Ohh it's gonna look bad in UHD Stephen haha, I'm such a cheeky git - it's a wonder I've not had this kicked out of me by now - I think the hammer puts people off, the green hair and tattoo'd face. It could be 25 years on anabolic steroids though - who knows? Oh no hang on, I do know, it's the spontaneous manic psychopathic tendencies - or something.

[SanderXpander]

Actually you do get a whole bunch of "dual" FX.

[Drama]

[GregC]

I think a good diagram of how FX work in the Kronos would be very useful.

I don't recall if the manual has a good picture of all the FX routing.
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[psionic311]

Here is a suggestion on how to use the effects in the Kronos:

12 Insert Effects
IFX tab => Routing1: here's where you assign an IFX number to a track
IFX tab => Insert FX: here's where you choose which IFX type
Use the Insert FX on a track to add a special color or quality -- auto wah on an electric piano, bass amp simulator on an electric bass guitar, delay on a lead line

2 Master Effects
MFX/TFX tab => Routing: here's where you choose which MFX to use
(Notice you must also set the master Return Levels for each MFX here here)
MFX1 = Stereo Chorus, MFX2 = O-verb.

Use the Master Effects for Chorus and Reverb, which is very common to apply to all your instruments. Each track will have a Send Level, which determines how much of that instrument goes to the Chorus. Then the Chorus will have an overall Return Level, which is how loud the chorus effect is in general.

If a track does not use a dedicated IFX, then the default L/R (left/right) option is selected (see IFX tab => Routing1). In this case, you will set the Send Level (0-127) on this page for each track to individually determine how much of that track to send to the Chorus and Reverb.

If a track *does* use a dedicated IFX, then the option to adjust the Send Level is disabled on this page. Go to the IFX => Insert FX page instead, and at the end of each row you can set the Send1 (Chorus) and Send2 (Reverb)
individually for each IFX.

2 Total Effects
MFX/TFX tab => Routing: here is where you choose which TFX type to use.
TFX1 = Stereo Multiband Compressor
TFX2 = Stereo Mastering Limiter

The Total Effects apply to the whole combi. When you turn on the effect, it works on every single track, 100%. Typically you would use some type of overall dynamic compression to control the balance of frequencies and levels so that the whole mix has a more produced sound.

[psionic311]

[StephenKay]

[psionic311]

Good catch, I did get that what was being asked was regarding IFX.

I'm perhaps being presumptuous here by assuming that what the OP is doing is using reverb as an IFX instead of an MFX when he was simply wanting to send individual track levels to an overall reverb.

[19naia]

Sharing one IFX among several tracks means they have to share the same send levels.
But IFX allows the same effect to be put into several different IFX slots(up to 12 of them). I recall using 2 IFX slots before to both run the same O-verb effect to get a thicker version of the effect. Each get their own send level per IFX where inserted and each can be routed to the same track and routed to different tracks at the same time.
Just insert the same effect in 2 or more IFX slots and you have your separate send level control. And then you are free to route any which way you like.
Seems the trade off between kronos and Motif is not independent send level control. Kronos ends up allowing more than 2 IFX per track and has more than 8 tracks to share 12 IFX and 4 MFX+TFX.
If you restrict your 16+16 kronos tracks to 8 maximum like Motif, i think kronos would do a better job than Motif in IFX routing options. You can do so much with Kronos IFX to the point of tied in knots and even then kronos has automatic sorting out of IFX conflict to make the best compromise. It may drop an IFX from where you want it sometimes or sometimes share an IFX where you did not intend it.

If you really think about it, you can have the same effect 12 times over with 12 different send levels. 12 IFX make that possible and then add the advantage of being able to assign all 12 IFX to one track and at the same time each to a different track or grouped in various ways to any of 16+16 tracks. The point of being tied in knots, confusion or highest number of IFX slots is the limit.

[amit]

By their very definition insert effects are serial chain effects so not hainvg a send level is actually true to their true nature like in traditional hardware.
and I would use the MFX (but s limited to single effect) for this.
Having said that, you might have your reasons, and instead of questioning your intent, i'd rather post a a hack / solution on how to solve the problem.

The Solution lies in routings and ifx chaining and fx control bus.
in your case assuming you have 6 tracks that you what to process through an effect chains with different input levels.

It will consume minimum 8 fx slots
9 slot solution (2 serial effects)
Track 1 -6 > route to Ifx1 thru Ifx 6
Track 1-6 under routing 2 set fx control bus to 1.

chain ifx 1 thru ifx 6 to ifx 7 (ifx 7 beoms your first effect processor.
route ifx7 to ifx 8 (ifx 8 is your second effect processor in series with 1)

on IFX9 load stereo gate: (this will be our dry signal)
for stero gate effect :
set envelope source to FX ontrol 1
select : LR mix
FX trim: 100.

now on ifx 1-6 slots load any stereo effect that allows you to adjust gain or trim.
set the gain or trim level to whatever amount you want it to go thru ifx 7 for that track.
Set monitoring to on.

DONE.

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[Schmooster]