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Mega backup plan - one simple question 1st please
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Mega backup plan - one simple question 1st please Reply with quote

Hi fellow Korg experts,

Before I engage in several days of backing up my Korg, I just wanted to make sure I was thinking about my backup plan the correct way. I have about 40 songs with each having an average of 10 tracks. I'm thinking I should do the following:
1. Save each song as a wav file (for sound reference)
2. Save each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs
3. Save each track on each song as wav - for Ableton (i.e. remix)
4. Save each track on each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs.

Am I missing anything? Would welcome your thoughts. Also, is there any shortcut for doing step #4?

Thank you so much.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A standard Save of a song actually saves the Audio tracks into wave files and the midi tracks into song midi files. All of them are saved under the same song file but you can open the song file down to the inidividual audio wave files and the midi tacks for loading in parts and pieces.

I guess a good way to understand a song save is to go to the Factory file and open the Factory Demo songs down to the smallest file to see just how it is partioned into parts and pieces of midi and audio wave files.
I sample entire songs, turning the entire compilation of midi and audio tracks into one Audio wave file. I guess sort of like making a CD but without any disc involved. I send the wave file to my computer where i can convert to MP3 and save for play like any song plays i get from the internet.

If a standard song save does not do what you want, you certainly can save each midi track and each audio track individually but i am not sure the easy way to go about saving several midi tracks from one song, saving each midi track by itself. Midi tracks generally have to be attached to a song file, but maybe there is a way around it. I know it is possible(the hard way) to save each midi track as a unique song file and then work out getting them all loaded into one song again.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm aware that's not true, Naia. A standard SNG file save will save the entire contents of the sequencer memory (all "midi" notes and all references to audio files of all songs) to a proprietary format. If you want to have a more universal backup, the steps outlined by korggal are nearly entirely correct. The only step I would consider redundant is number 4, saving each track as a separate midi file, because the midi file saved in step 2 will already contain all tracks and you can always split them by channel if you have to (or at least I've never seen a DAW that can't).

So you're pretty much on the right track, korggal! Good luck, seems like a lot of work!
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Mega backup plan - one simple question 1st please Reply with quote

Korggal2015 wrote:
Hi fellow Korg experts,

Before I engage in several days of backing up my Korg, I just wanted to make sure I was thinking about my backup plan the correct way. I have about 40 songs with each having an average of 10 tracks. I'm thinking I should do the following:
1. Save each song as a wav file (for sound reference)
2. Save each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs
3. Save each track on each song as wav - for Ableton (i.e. remix)
4. Save each track on each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs.

Am I missing anything? Would welcome your thoughts. Also, is there any shortcut for doing step #4?

Thank you so much.


I like your thinking and have a growing Song list where I have a dependency on Korg

I am not doing your #3.

You didn't mention where to archive or redundant backup to the actual Song file.

I have a USB backup of all SONG files and WAV files. Also copied all that to my mac.

In addition, I getting organized to place all SONGs + Wavs to a 2nd SSD. The 2nd SSD will have only those files.
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
As far as I'm aware that's not true, Naia. A standard SNG file save will save the entire contents of the sequencer memory (all "midi" notes and all references to audio files of all songs) to a proprietary format. If you want to have a more universal backup, the steps outlined by korggal are nearly entirely correct. The only step I would consider redundant is number 4, saving each track as a separate midi file, because the midi file saved in step 2 will already contain all tracks and you can always split them by channel if you have to (or at least I've never seen a DAW that can't).

So you're pretty much on the right track, korggal! Good luck, seems like a lot of work!


Most of my plan was gleaned from reading your responses in prior threads on here - so thank YOU! Just wanted to summarize and make sure I was on the right track. And thanks - I was wondering if #4 was akin to #2.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well glad to hear I contributed! I think Greg is correct, you haven't mentioned if you're also creating a "normal" Kronos backup, simply copying your SNG files and the folders of audio files to another disk. That's the easiest step and definitely worth doing in case your Kronos or its SSD ever dies and you want to continue working with your files on a Kronos. The more involved way of backing up you described will work for any platform but take a little more time to rebuild on a Kronos.
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Mega backup plan - one simple question 1st please Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Korggal2015 wrote:
Hi fellow Korg experts,

Before I engage in several days of backing up my Korg, I just wanted to make sure I was thinking about my backup plan the correct way. I have about 40 songs with each having an average of 10 tracks. I'm thinking I should do the following:
1. Save each song as a wav file (for sound reference)
2. Save each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs
3. Save each track on each song as wav - for Ableton (i.e. remix)
4. Save each track on each song as midi - in event I need a 2nd Korg or other synth and need to transfer songs.

Am I missing anything? Would welcome your thoughts. Also, is there any shortcut for doing step #4?

Thank you so much.


I like your thinking and have a growing Song list where I have a dependency on Korg

I am not doing your #3.

You didn't mention where to archive or redundant backup to the actual Song file.

I have a USB backup of all SONG files and WAV files. Also copied all that to my mac.

In addition, I getting organized to place all SONGs + Wavs to a 2nd SSD. The 2nd SSD will have only those files.


Great points Greg. Yes I failed to mention I have been doing a USB backup (and then making a copy on my Mac and my Mac passport) of all .SNG files. Thanks for your input
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Well glad to hear I contributed! I think Greg is correct, you haven't mentioned if you're also creating a "normal" Kronos backup, simply copying your SNG files and the folders of audio files to another disk. That's the easiest step and definitely worth doing in case your Kronos or its SSD ever dies and you want to continue working with your files on a Kronos. The more involved way of backing up you described will work for any platform but take a little more time to rebuild on a Kronos.


You two are amazing. Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciation to you and Greg! If you two don't mind, can you PM me your email? Just wanted to send a small token of appreciation Smile
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
As far as I'm aware that's not true, Naia. A standard SNG file save will save the entire contents of the sequencer memory (all "midi" notes and all references to audio files of all songs) to a proprietary format. If you want to have a more universal backup, the steps outlined by korggal are nearly entirely correct. The only step I would consider redundant is number 4, saving each track as a separate midi file, because the midi file saved in step 2 will already contain all tracks and you can always split them by channel if you have to (or at least I've never seen a DAW that can't).

So you're pretty much on the right track, korggal! Good luck, seems like a lot of work!


My goodness.. have been backing up for the past 5 hours now. You had mentioned that #4 is redundant... but it may not be. Just to do a test trial, I inserted one Korg song as midi, into Ableton. I selected bells as a sound, and every track (i.e. my drums, piano, bass) of course played back in bells. I suppose I could go through each track and assign a separate instrument for each but seems more tedious. Plus of course, the instrument bank is different in Ableton/Massive vs Korg.
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have scoured youtube, google and forums. There must be a way to batch export individual wav files of a song? I can't believe I have to mute all tracks but the one I'm bouncing to disk. Will take me forever cuz I have probably like 400 tracks. I will seriously email u a treat (i.e. gift certif for Starbucks or something) if u can help find an easier solution.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to #4, Ableton apparently doesn't have a way to automatically demix midi files by channel like most other DAWs do. But I blatantly copied this from another forum and it seems like it should work and would be quicker than doing it all on Kronos:

"assuming everything has been assigned their right midi channel I would approach it like this.
Put the midi on one track in ableton. Rename it to MidiIn.
Create a midi track for each instrument in the song, you can get that from the reference document.
On the first track, let say its drums and from the documentation that's on midi channel 10. In ableton make sure you are viewing inputs/outputs by click the IO button towards the bottom on the right (past the master track)
Then on the 'drums' rack, change the input from all to the MidiIn track. Then in the second drop down select channel 10.
Repeat for each of the midi tracks selecting the MidiIn in each case but replace the midi channel with whats in the reference document.
Rename all tracks appropriately.
Add VSTs for each of your midi tracks or otherwise route the output of each of your tracks to a midi track with a multitimbral softsynth on it.
Now you can arm all tracks for record, then record over all whch will record the appropriate midi into each track for further editing. Alternatively freeze the tracks and flatten them which will create audio versions of the midi.

Optionally, select a time frame you are interested in and then using the menu option to make what you've selected a new scene on the clip view."

Of course you could save a template so you don't have to do it all every time.
EDIT: There's also a tool called midi split here which does what you want:
http://www.freewarefiles.com/More_Programs_28385.html?fullweb=1
/EDIT

Regarding exporting WAVs, I don't think Kronos has a batch export. But if you could record them in Ableton and if you have enough inputs on your interface, you could conceivably do 8 mono tracks at the same time (L/R, 1, 2, 3, 4 and S/PDIF) with proper routing and panning.

And thanks for the offer but I would feel weird accepting presents Smile
I'm happy to help, really.
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you SanderXpander! That helps.

Now if only someone invented a program where you could play/record a multitrack song on the Korg and it simultaneously recorded in Ableton so you'd have the song in the Korg for playing live and the same song version in Ableton for mixing/editing... would be so helpful
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know. Technically it's possible to record all sixteen midi channels and eight audio channels simultaneously. You'd need to make sure Ableton is synced to record the next eight though, and your interface needs to have enough inputs, as I said.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korggal2015 wrote:
Thank you SanderXpander! That helps.

Now if only someone invented a program where you could play/record a multitrack song on the Korg and it simultaneously recorded in Ableton so you'd have the song in the Korg for playing live and the same song version in Ableton for mixing/editing... would be so helpful

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=105200&highlight=stemmer

Though won't work in ableton, as ableton does not support system exclusive.
You can use reaper though.
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Korggal2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
As to #4, Ableton apparently doesn't have a way to automatically demix midi files by channel like most other DAWs do. But I blatantly copied this from another forum and it seems like it should work and would be quicker than doing it all on Kronos:

"assuming everything has been assigned their right midi channel I would approach it like this.
Put the midi on one track in ableton. Rename it to MidiIn.
Create a midi track for each instrument in the song, you can get that from the reference document.
On the first track, let say its drums and from the documentation that's on midi channel 10. In ableton make sure you are viewing inputs/outputs by click the IO button towards the bottom on the right (past the master track)
Then on the 'drums' rack, change the input from all to the MidiIn track. Then in the second drop down select channel 10.
Repeat for each of the midi tracks selecting the MidiIn in each case but replace the midi channel with whats in the reference document.
Rename all tracks appropriately.
Add VSTs for each of your midi tracks or otherwise route the output of each of your tracks to a midi track with a multitimbral softsynth on it.
Now you can arm all tracks for record, then record over all whch will record the appropriate midi into each track for further editing. Alternatively freeze the tracks and flatten them which will create audio versions of the midi.

Optionally, select a time frame you are interested in and then using the menu option to make what you've selected a new scene on the clip view."

Of course you could save a template so you don't have to do it all every time.
EDIT: There's also a tool called midi split here which does what you want:
http://www.freewarefiles.com/More_Programs_28385.html?fullweb=1
/EDIT

Regarding exporting WAVs, I don't think Kronos has a batch export. But if you could record them in Ableton and if you have enough inputs on your interface, you could conceivably do 8 mono tracks at the same time (L/R, 1, 2, 3, 4 and S/PDIF) with proper routing and panning.

And thanks for the offer but I would feel weird accepting presents Smile
I'm happy to help, really.


Not that you were asking, but just as to follow up, I found in the manual that the Kronos does allow one to save a a song in MIDI format with each track broken out into individual MIDI tracks - when saving to MIDI format, you press the "1" button instead of the "0" button. Tried it - it's nice and easy! Happy Friday Smile
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