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Korg Grandstage (Released)
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Broadwave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
So it's essentially a Kronos without the screen, some synth engines and workstation features.

All fine but - RH3??

On a - _Digital Piano_ ??


Absolutely. Did you expect a weighted synth action Fatar keybed? RH3 is perfect for the job, probably one of the best mechanisms available for a "Digital Piano".
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadwave wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
So it's essentially a Kronos without the screen, some synth engines and workstation features.

All fine but - RH3??

On a - _Digital Piano_ ??


Absolutely. Did you expect a weighted synth action Fatar keybed? RH3 is perfect for the job, probably one of the best mechanisms available for a "Digital Piano".



Respectfully disagree. As an OASYS owner, I find RH2 to be _significantly_ more pianistic than RH3.

Indeed, of all of the weighted actions I've tried, RH3 is the worst. Its action is very poor - mushy and bouncy - and quite un-piano like. I think you'll find that's widely acknowledged - even across this forum from it's use in the M3. And - given it's about 10 years old and questionable in character and reputation, I'm frankly surprised Korg have stuck with it for so long. RH4 cannot come soon enough.
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CowboyNQ
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:

Indeed, of all of the weighted actions I've tried, RH3 is the worst. Its action is very poor - mushy and bouncy - and quite un-piano like. I think you'll find that's widely acknowledged - even across this forum from it's use in the M3.

I really like the RH3 action. I find it a pleasure to play on my SV-1. It doesn't feel exactly like my AP but then no digital piano action that I've tried does. For that matter no two AP actions feel exactly identical.

Actions are very much a subjective thing, (as this discussion attests) but Korg consider RH3 their premier weighted action so they were always going to put it into their new stage piano.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always Kevin likes to be rather enthusiastic in declaring his opinions as universally true. As a professional and schooled piano player playing various grands and uprights as part of my daily work I don't have a problem with RH3 at all, beyond the initial double-strike issue. I've played an Oasys and thought it was a bit heavy for my taste. No keyboard on a digital instrument will ever replace the feeling of an actual grand under your fingers. I find RH3 to do a pretty decent translation as these things go, definitely better than many others. But while it is nice to find a keyboard that "suits" your playing technique, ultimately you have to adapt to the board since the other way around is never going to happen. Some people have more trouble with this than others.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Broadwave wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
So it's essentially a Kronos without the screen, some synth engines and workstation features.

All fine but - RH3??

On a - _Digital Piano_ ??


Absolutely. Did you expect a weighted synth action Fatar keybed? RH3 is perfect for the job, probably one of the best mechanisms available for a "Digital Piano".



Respectfully disagree. As an OASYS owner, I find RH2 to be _significantly_ more pianistic than RH3.

Indeed, of all of the weighted actions I've tried, RH3 is the worst. Its action is very poor - mushy and bouncy - and quite un-piano like. I think you'll find that's widely acknowledged - even across this forum from it's use in the M3. And - given it's about 10 years old and questionable in character and reputation, I'm frankly surprised Korg have stuck with it for so long. RH4 cannot come soon enough.


I think the RH3 is a good keybed, for the Kronos, it holds the middle between a piano and a synth/organ keyboard.... the Kronos is not a stage piano but a performance keyboard workstation.. for which the RH3 is a fitting choice..

However, i agree, for SV-1 and the Grand Stage, i can see how many people would prefer a more piano like keybed... korg would do smart making a partnerhsip for high end keybeds with Kawai...
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wma
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems they get rid of the mini-atx & the big power supply inside while keeping alot of kronos features available - 7 engines & SST, might be the next workstation or synth will be truely an embedded device - not a pc in the case

still no rumors if korg will announce any successors of kronos, krome, pa900 .. after few days there's the summer namm
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wma wrote:
seems they get rid of the mini-atx & the big power supply inside while keeping alot of kronos features available - 7 engines & SST, might be the next workstation or synth will be truely an embedded device - not a pc in the case

still no rumors if korg will announce any successors of kronos, krome, pa900 .. after few days there's the summer namm


you won't hear any qualified rumors. any Korg person/consulatant/developer has signed an NDA.

That is a financial incentive to keep the lips zipped. Or else.

People make up rumors, but thats another game
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pink elefant



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: no routing no free encoders Reply with quote

I like the idea to have a Kronos Stagepiano. But it looks like you canīt really edit sounds and fx. Thatīs a pity Crying or Very sad . F.e. I use distorsion fx very often on my Kronos for a-piano sounds. This will probably not possible with the Grandstage. On the list with the presets there is no a-piano with distorsion. No use of reverse delay, no editor, where I can route different fx. So I will stay with the Kronos, even if I use it only as a stage piano. There are 8 encoders where you can route what you want. That would have been a good idea for the Grandstage.
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pink elefant



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and in terms of the stand ....... does anybody know what they smoke in Japan Shocked
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Scott
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
korg would do smart making a partnerhsip for high end keybeds with Kawai...

I suspect that Kawai would have no interest in sharing one of the things that makes some people choose to buy Kawais over Korgs in the first place. Companies don't typically give their proprietary competitive advantages to the competition. (Korg did have some Yamaha actions for a while, but at the time, Yamaha owned a piece of Korg.) So I doubt Kawai would have any interest in seeing a Kawai action in a Grandstage-style board, which kind of competes with them in stage piano market. But Kawai is not in the high end workstation business, so I could imagine that they could possibly be more open to supplying an action for something like a Kronos. Though I suspect that Korg doesn't see any problem with using the RH3 on the Kronos, and it would probably cost them more to use a Kawai action even if Kawai were willing to supply it. I have thought in the past that Casio would make a viable partner for this kind of thing, though. Their actions could lower the weight of a board like the Kronos, which could be an obvious benefit for Korg, while the Kronos does not directly compete with any Casio product.

pink elefant wrote:
I will stay with the Kronos, even if I use it only as a stage piano. There are 8 encoders where you can route what you want. That would have been a good idea for the Grandstage.

I think that goes against the basic design philosophy of the Grandstage (which is why it's good that they also offer a Kronos). The Grandstage, like the SV1, is about simplicity. That means minimal menu diving, and no generic unlabeled buttons that do different things depending on what else you've set up.
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Akos Janca
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pink elefant wrote:
and in terms of the stand ....... does anybody know what they smoke in Japan Shocked


Very Happy

For me, at first it was a bit surprising but I think I understand. An ideal stand should be 1.) strong and stable, 2.) comfortable for sitting or standing playing position with flexible height/angle settings, 3.) should be foldable and light for easy portability, 4.) should provide a place for an optional second board. 5.) And should look good (a question of taste, of course).

On the pictures it seems to be the one, not?
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pink elefant



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you are right according to the SV-1. There is a perfect one-knob-per-function philosophy. But the Grandstage seems to be something between. Effects are fixed routed to pitch bend wheel, sw 1 and 2 knobs.... Thatīs not easy to use, you have to read the preset list before you know what is going on. Why not 4 different fx areas with a knob to choose and a knob to edit. It looks like the wanted to convert the Kronos without developing a decent new interface. A lot of Kronos, a little of King-Korg. Bringing out a SV-2 with the Kronos a-pianos would have been the better idea IMO.
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pink elefant



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akos Janca wrote:
pink elefant wrote:
and in terms of the stand ....... does anybody know what they smoke in Japan Shocked


Very Happy

For me, at first it was a bit surprising but I think I understand. An ideal stand should be 1.) strong and stable, 2.) comfortable for sitting or standing playing position with flexible height/angle settings, 3.) should be foldable and light for easy portability, 4.) should provide a place for an optional second board. 5.) And should look good (a question of taste, of course).

On the pictures it seems to be the one, not?


yes very functional, especially as a clothes rack Smile and - I do not have a truck to drive to my gigs.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott wrote:
Bachus wrote:
korg would do smart making a partnerhsip for high end keybeds with Kawai...

I suspect that Kawai would have no interest in sharing one of the things that makes some people choose to buy Kawais over Korgs in the first place. Companies don't typically give their proprietary competitive advantages to the competition. (Korg did have some Yamaha actions for a while, but at the time, Yamaha owned a piece of Korg.) So I doubt Kawai would have any interest in seeing a Kawai action in a Grandstage-style board, which kind of competes with them in stage piano market. But Kawai is not in the high end workstation business, so I could imagine that they could possibly be more open to supplying an action for something like a Kronos. Though I suspect that Korg doesn't see any problem with using the RH3 on the Kronos, and it would probably cost them more to use a Kawai action even if Kawai were willing to supply it. I have thought in the past that Casio would make a viable partner for this kind of thing, though. Their actions could lower the weight of a board like the Kronos, which could be an obvious benefit for Korg, while the Kronos does not directly compete with any Casio product.


Waves audio , MAXX mastering suite..
TC Hellicon vocaliser technollogy

Just to name 2 high end 3rd party products that are used by Korg Italy in their high end product PA4x...


If Korg would opt to use a high end Kawai keyboard for their high end synthesizer workstation keyboard, i dont see much competition for Kawais digital,piano's when compared to a Kronos type of workstation..

Or just add akai's VIP or Nektars engine to a workstation so you get perfect integration with VST's...


I dont think the problem is so much with Kawai, but more with Korg itsleves, they might actually believe the RH3 to be a truely high end keybed (as a non typical piano player, its something i can live with) on top of that the way Japan calculates their consumer prices, an expensive 3rd party keybed might rise their prices into the sky...
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Scott
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pink elefant wrote:
Yes you are right according to the SV-1. There is a perfect one-knob-per-function philosophy. But the Grandstage seems to be something between. Effects are fixed routed to pitch bend wheel, sw 1 and 2 knobs.... Thatīs not easy to use, you have to read the preset list before you know what is going on.

Good point about the alternate/unlabeled functions of the wheel/SW buttons. Even the SV1 did have a little of that, some "hidden" functions that probably almost no one uses because no one knows they are there. Wink They should have put one more multi-line OLED display on the left of the GS, letting you know what functions were currently assigned to those variable controls.

pink elefant wrote:
Bringing out a SV-2 with the Kronos a-pianos would have been the better idea IMO.

This addresses a lot of other complaints people had about the SV1, not just better pianos. Having only 8 Favorite locations, not being able to split/layer, having an awkward shape to carry or stack, no mod/pitch wheels... The seamless sound transition is a nice enhancement, too.
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