Korg Forums

[mintjamman]

Although this is not exclusive to the Korg Pa4x I always find keyboard amplification to be a issue many have to deal with. This applies to those who gig with keyboards rather than a home setting which is far easier to deal with.
Full Range Amplification is needed and preferably in Stereo to ensure the Pa4x sounds as it should. As yet I have never found a Keyboard Combo that meets the demands of the live player for various reasons. Guitarists are spoilt for choice but the long suffering keyboard player has to really do some detective work to find a system that allows for critical playback of sounds from Piano, Orchestal, Synth, Organ sounds through in the case of an arranger a whole band.

Over the years I have settled on separate speakers and amps and mixers as that combination allows so much flexibility in a live situation. I have mostly favored 15" and horn cabinets which provide the soundstage required along with decent output power amps and while it's more like moving and using a PA it allows you to work in such a great way no matter if your working in a band or solo.

This brings me to my latest aquasition a pair of Yamaha DXR 12 cabinets, I wanted something full range, relatively light and easy to move but with output and headroom to fill a medium size venue up to 150 people. Enter the DXR range of active speakers, having tried the 15" versions they were seriously good and the low end sounded like you had a sub running, but they tipped the balance in the weight department and I ended up with the DXR12s.

These are superb for the gigging keyboard player and outperform any keyboard combo on the market in a lightweight product that one can easily shift and the Pa4x sounds great running through them. They take on a new lease of life when coupled with a sub creating a 2.1 system or if the venue is larger by sticking another sub on.

Needless to say I am well impressed with these and they will make my life a lot easier on a number of levels. So if your in the market for Amplification for your Keybaords give the DXR range a look because for the price, quality, features they excel in my view and did I mention the 7 Year Warranty ! ( that's in the U.K.)
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[mabcomp]

This is a nightmare and this subject has come up many times before in this forum. The day someone designs some speakers that actually make a keyboard piano sound good live they will make a lot of money.
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Pro Singer/Musician for over 30 Years

[AntonySharmman]

No amplification system in the world can enhance or make a poor sound to become a real one , contrary
a good developed real acoustic instrument can be heard flawlessly in any 2-ways stereo speaker !
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Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
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[Eduardo_Arg]

Hi Friends:

I must agree search for a good quality keyboard amp is a nightmare, but not because they are few or non exists, the nightmare is the price always.-

Recently i post that i've the chance to ear and test an amp that blow my head, SWR California Blondee II, it's not cheap but is justify each cent.
Unfortunately it's difficult to find at least in southamerica where i live.-

As we (keyboardist) needs a pair to get the full of our keyboards, it's a great investment.- I bought one new for U$S 1.700, but must wait several months to get a second unic.- It's a real 200 wts rms amp with a 12 Celestion and a supertweeter.- Measures: height 63 cm depth 35 cm weight 23 kg. (light weight and easy transport).- As it's power is "real" in my experience 200 wats is more than enough for live situations.-

For those who live in UK you have another "beast" MotionSound amps.-

For keyboard we need crystal clear amps that reproduce with fidelity sounds.- Perhaps for this reason, any amp for accoustic instruments goes right.- Some friends use bass amps with dedicated driver for mid and high frequencys; but adding specific hardware, we are nearly PA system, not as easy to conect and hard to transport.-

Other brands that produce good accoustic amps are AER, Fishman, Fender, Roland.- Choose one it's not easy and of course dependant from how much you want to invest.- But they exists.-

Hopping this opinion helps everyone, with regards.
Eduardo
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Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II

[Snoopy]

Hi,

so it´s as in general :

Who pays cheap pays twice ( and more )

BTW: I´m using 2 "Bose L1 compact" ( each 999 € )
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Greetings from East-Frisia, Germany

PA4X MUSIKANT, OS 3.1.0, PKG-Version

[mabcomp]

[mabcomp]

[AntonySharmman]

[D575]

When a high quality PA system has been established like we see in the opening of this thread and which has been offered in the past in precious threads by other working PA4X user's with there personal PA rigs (and the more you can spended the better) then the next important thing to consider when trying to achieve a good fidelity from a live PA system is understanding how to use the Master EQ (MAXX Audio) in the PA4X (considering a simple setup here with out any other outboard gear other than say a good mixer) and this really can be your friend when understanding how to use a Master EQ or your enemy if set up wrongly when striving for a good live sound and this is something that will need to be tailored according to the different acoustic environments that different venues can throw up....this is where the work is generally needed when looking for a good and satisfactory live sound in conjunction with a decent PA system.
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[triton_lover]

I solved this issue ages ago, by still using triton based synths/arrangers.

They still sound great in any amp/speaker i have tried with minimum (if any) eq intervention.

[mintjamman]

It's interesting to see the various takes on the thread I started, Anthony introduces a valid point that no Amplification system will make a bad sound good and I am convinced beyond doubt that indeed Anthony has a set of Golden Ears!

However the point I was trying to make was about how we as Keyboard players get heard by our audiences, band mates as well as ourselves. Regarding Keyboard Combos or Amps with speakers many of them feature tweeter horns as opposed to CD horn compression drivers the latter which have far better coverage angles than a tweeter. I have played a lot of combos with tweeters and hate them and at higher volumes they get very fatiguing.

In my studio I mix with Mackie HR monitors and it's important to me to be able to get my mixes and sounds translated well on a sound system hence why I have the choice of three way custom built JBL speakers, EAW Speakers ( these are separate systems by the way Event dependent ) and which cost many thousands and now of course the Yamaha DXRs for smaller events.

I am afraid that a Motion Sound gets the thumbs down from me as do any of the combos I have tried over many years and for me having the true flexibility of a dedicated sound reinforcement system of uncompromising quality is a defecto requirement in what I do.

Of course it doesn't stop with speakers, there are mixers, outboard equipment to take into consideration but once you get this all sorted it would I think be almost impossible to cart a box with a tweeter and limited mixing and routing facilities unless you had back issues or transport considerations.
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[D575]

I think the initial recommendation at the start of this thread is good information as I have also been recently trying similar PA systems myself and the modern powererd PA outfits of today have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years when considering power vs weight vs portability etc, as far as most combo keyboard amp's out there then they really can not compete with a good powered PA speaker system (×2 for stereo) with what ever size and configuration is needed according to the environment it has to work in and i think if any one is looking to here there investment i.e. PA4X sounding at its best out side the studio or home environment then this really is the best way to go, so for instance as much as I respect Roland as a company but when trying there keyboard amp combos then the only thing really worth putting through them is a chainsaw.....so Yamaha DXR or similar is the best way forward indeaed.....but worth a mentions an interesting development in the guitar world has put a single amp on the horizon that can work very well as a keyboard amp in the traditional sense which has been disgusted in the past here on the forum which should make any manufacturer making dedicated keyboard amp's rethink there strategy "line6 firehawk 1500" (Stereo) worth investigating...very good but will NOT replace the duties of say yamaha DXR's which this thread is initially about but for a smaller footprint with some interesting tec then not bad at all.
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[AntonySharmman]

[D575]

With out wanting to detract from what I think the author of this thread was trying to convey when considering the informantion coming from this experienced advice with the positive pointers regarding there latest purchase which I'm sure is intended to offer help to those who are considering something similar, so with that in mind I would like to just digress a little and pick up on something I said earlier also including Anthony's conclusion and of course I respect all conserned with there analysis, so not excluding Anthony's formal qualifications and my self understanding the argument very well...what I can say is comparing price vs performance and performance in this instance is the discussion of trying to reproduce good sound ((((fidelity)))) in a live application and this also includes the understanding of the many variances we can find that can hamper this with diffrent venues, and this can including or not including (depending on individuals prefrance) any other outboard equipment between the two main subject matters here (PA4X & PA) and of course we need to moving away from what we hear in our studio environment in comparison within this discussion unless you are fortunate to have... say Pink Floyd's live sound engineers and crew and there running gear at your gig which is probably not going to happen.... so now what I can say is after some extensive testing with the PA4X recently at a Pro Audio Specialist who has a very well setup dedicated room with many manufacturers lines of PA at various price levels and who could not distract me with sales spin considering there working day is all about earning there commission, and with this and few other factors in mind my conclusion recently in this sitting (and this was done over a few sessions) is that the best sounding system happened to be the most expensive PA setup within my budget at this prosumer to professional sales set-up room at that time which happend to be Yamaha DSR 112 and the accompanying DSR Sub, which the DSR's are the next line up after the very good DXR's seen at the start of this thread, so my point including Anthony's summary in my mind from earlier in this thread... is when comparing the DSR's to a identical system at a lower price point from the same or one of the other manufacturers then the less expensive systems could not hold up as well against the DSR's as a sound reinforcement system and importantly the ((((fidelity)))) at this higher price point compared to a cheaper and even similar price systems compared to the DSR's and this may surprise some with the applications we were running and it's important to be aware that the pa4x was Primary with mixer and outboards... so we really need to understanding how to over come anomalies of different location to obtain the good sounding system live (which is a new subject matter in its self) which we have auditioned in the controlled selling environment ....so for me the more I can spend up to my budget Not Less, then this has a positive effect with the PA4X and the over all good sound which I require with the understanding how to reinforce this out on location.... hope that may help some also
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[mabcomp]

My gripe with all this is simply about the pianos, thats the biggy. I use a pair of Bose L1 Model 2 in Stereo and get a great sound instrumentally and vocally with all the onboard instruments EXCEPT the pianos, Ive tried all sorts and just cannot get away from that annoying clunky sound and no amount of messing about with EQ solves it. What surprises me is that if you listen to the demos by Bonners and others the pianos sound fine and they arent using anything other than speakers like standard Yamaha's . However you try using those live and they sound ....
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Pro Singer/Musician for over 30 Years