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Audio issues and glitches iMac Sierra, Kronos and Ableton
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Jeremy Bender
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 98
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Audio issues and glitches iMac Sierra, Kronos and Ableton Reply with quote

I accidentally installed the Sierra OS on my music room Mac on the advice of my son despite the fact my setup was working fine before....

I now have the audio issues many others have posted about where the sound degrades and distorts really quickly to a complete mess.

I've done some searches but can't see if anyone has found any solution yet.

I read It's an Apple created issue but Korg may be able to patch it somehow with a software upgrade...

Any support would be very welcome please. Is the current quick option to get a separate interface? If so any recommendations for one with plenty of line inputs as I have a few synths to link up.

Thanks a lot
Steve
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Korg Kronos 88, Korg M3 61 with Radias EXP, DSI Prophet 6,Moog Voyager, Korg MS-20 kit, Korg Wavestation SR, Korg M3R, Korg Legacy Collection, Roland JV1080, Roland D10, EDP Wasp, Roland TR606 Drumatix, Ableton Live, Ableton Push
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DeltaJockey
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015
Posts: 134
Location: East Gippsland, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, there appears to be little progress on a fix using Sierra.
I've all but given up using the USB audio through the Kronos now, and just feed the computer audio through a mixer. It has the subtle behavioural affect of when using vst's, not always using my Kronos, but one of my other less sophisticated keyboards, as the Kronos has less relevance when doing music this way. My Kronos would always be my 100% used keyboard for everything at one stage.
Perhaps one day that option may return Confused

I noticed a few weeks back that Korg released a new MIDI driver, which I installed with anticipation. Unfortunately, it was just an update to include support for the Grandstage.

I don't have access to an older version of OSX now, so I'm stuck using Sierra too.

Unless anyone else has some news, we are faced with a workstation that from now on doesn't support USB audio on an uptodate Mac.
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DeltaJockey
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015
Posts: 134
Location: East Gippsland, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy,

I might add, that if you have a time machine backup, and can revert back to your last backup...El Capitan? That may solve your problem in the short term.

As I mentioned, I don't have that option anymore, for a couple of reasons, and am getting quite frustrated at the time the issue has existed, hence my previous "rant"!


Chris
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 5862
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Audio issues and glitches iMac Sierra, Kronos and Ableto Reply with quote

Jeremy Bender wrote:
I accidentally installed the Sierra OS on my music room Mac on the advice of my son despite the fact my setup was working fine before....

I now have the audio issues many others have posted about where the sound degrades and distorts really quickly to a complete mess.

I've done some searches but can't see if anyone has found any solution yet.

I read It's an Apple created issue but Korg may be able to patch it somehow with a software upgrade...

Any support would be very welcome please. Is the current quick option to get a separate interface? If so any recommendations for one with plenty of line inputs as I have a few synths to link up.

Thanks a lot
Steve


your searches and conclusion are accurate. I also believe an audio interface is currently the best work around.

There has been no recent news from Korg to help us with some type of patch or audio interface solution. Korg knows about the problem.

I would be nice if Korg communicated any progress. I wouldn't mind waiting if they were making progress. If its dead in the water , I would invest in an audio interface to finally settle this.
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1047
Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This can be an ongoing problem for some that use sierra for music stuff as described.
It can work with certain tweaks which needs careful and several initial attempts to set up.

I use cubase elements with a late 2013 iMac and can produce reasonable results,but not with some other apps.
(Audacity and Soundflower for example).
A particular iMac or mac model/version may be a contributory factor as well,but I can't really substantiate that.

Using an interface has provided a solution for many,so perhaps it's the way to go if the added expense is not an issue.
There are many to chose from,perhaps other forum members will suggest a selection.

However,I prefer to use Mountain Lion as my main osx,not only for music but also for general computing that suit my needs.
Correctly set up,it works very well with most music apps that I use.
The only drawback with this is that recent,newer software may not be compatable with an older osx.

A suggestion would be to consider a dual boot system with sierra,plus either your previous osx or even Mountain Lion.
(I cannot vouch for any of the intermediate osx versions,which may be an alternative choice).
These can be installed into separate partitions or separate drives….ssd types are ideal for this.

Best Wishes.
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BobTheDog
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Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1419

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can install the old core audio USB driver in Sierra, I did it when I upgraded. I can't remember exactly what I did, I think it was just a single kext that needed putting back to the pre sierra version. I'll check in the morning...
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1047
Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A forum member did post some information about this some time ago...can't find it at the moment.
I tried that suggested method with kext files,but it didn't help me with the use of Soundflower as I wanted to at that time.

It may help with other audio problems though....but in my case,luckily,I don't need to alter anything major in sierra for general purpose with a daw.

However,although I can get the audio and cubase to work nicely together,it needed further tweaks to the Audio midi Set Up plus System Preferences and also cubase settings etc.
Initially this can be a "Hit & Miss" exercise before achieving the desired results.

Mountain Lion is a one off setting and it continues to works well for me, without any further adjustments.
This being my main osx as part of a multi boot system with occasional sierra use.

My understanding is that not everyone has audio problems with sierra...there are many that do,of course and an apple solution is not forthcoming,unfortunately.

I really do hope that what BobTheDog suggests will be the answer to all who have this ongoing problem.
(Thanks Bob).

Best Wishes.
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bmtg



Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I have the issue running El Capitan, so it's not Sierra only.

Cheers
bmtg
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Gunnar



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmtg wrote:
For what it's worth, I have the issue running El Capitan, so it's not Sierra only.

Cheers
bmtg


On El Capitan, was it always or in certain situations?

I ask because I did experience distorted audio coming out of the Kronos' USB Audio Out on El Capitan also. But that only happened when I had a lot of stuff going on in Reaper (my DAW). 20-30+ tracks with individual EQ, some bus routing, some reverbs, some delays, some compressions, etc, you get the idea. The distortion I would appear after playing a short while, say 10-30 seconds. Now, I always blamed this on my 13 inch MacBook Pro not being able to cope, due to its mediocre DualCore i5 CPU.

The difference on Sierra, is that it now happens all the time, right away, regardless of what is played. Even when playing a .wav file from disk.
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DeltaJockey
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015
Posts: 134
Location: East Gippsland, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem did occur with El Capitan, but from my experience, it was limited to certain Macs, whereas now with Sierra, it appears to be any Mac hardware. I used to experience it on El Capitan with a 2015 Retina MBP, and was able to use my older 2012 Mac Air as a backup.
I've found with Sierra, now all my Macs exhibit the same problem. (That is more than 2 machines btw)!

On the subject of using an interface. I still am able to use my Roland JP80 which I have confirmed as a functioning interface. Interestingly, the Roland driver I have installed on Sierra is still an old one I haven't updated since moving to Sierra, and the USB audio via it, works just fine.
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Qtipcore
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 115
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an Apple created issue.

My take on this is that they've changed the way that the USBAudio (Core Audio) driver synchronizes, so that any older hardware that used to work fine within the spec of core audio, now needs to be updated to the new spec.

The Ultranova, Apogee GIO and Roland TD-11 that I have all work, because they have their own driver - Korg does not.

I've found a workaround by installing the 10.9.5 AppleUSBAudio.kext, but it is not a good solution...

DISCLAIMER - Follow procedure at own risk
What I did to make the driver work on my system is as follows:

1. Disable System Integrity protection on your Mac:
https://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-disable-system-integrity-protection-on-mac/

2. Boot the Mac, rename the existing AppleUSBAudio,kext in /System/Library/Extensions to for instance AppleUSBAudio.sierra

3. Extract the included AppleUSBAudio.kext and copy the file to /System/Library/Extensions - I'll post a link for the driver later
Edit: Here's the link - http://usbaudio.kumagnet.org/AppleUSBAudio.zip

4. Change ownership on the file:
Chown -R root:wheel AppleUSBAudio.kext

5. Let OS X know that the driver is updated, and update the driver cache:
sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions/ && sudo kextcache -u /

6. Reboot your Mac, and the Kronos should be working stutter free.

If you want to roll back your changes, just backtrack the steps.

I’ve tested this procedure with Sierra 10.12.2, and my Kronos 61 (and 88 ) - And it worked for me.
Once I updated the OS to Sierra 10.12.3 the issues came back - i.e. Apple updated the driver, and it still does not work.. - Now on 10.12.6 - Same issue.
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1047
Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Qtipcore......we meet again.. Smile

The ongoing saga continues then...

Pleased you posted your workaround for this....it may help others.

I did try a similar method,but it failed,unfortunately.
However,I did manage to get things working to a degree by another method.....as described in a previous post.

As I tend not to use sierra much,it isn't a major problem for me,but I can empathize with those who do and wish a "proper official" solution could be found,preferably from apple.
This has been going on for a very long time,I first encountered similar problems in early 2014 !!!
Tried subsequent osx versions since Montain Lion and they all have some audio problems.

I don't understand why this has not been correctly addressed by apple.
Even a workaround guide would be useful.
(Forgive the rant...).

Wondering if Korg could help... ??

Best Wishes.
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Jeremy Bender
Junior Member


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 98
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for responses all.

I decided to solve the issue by getting an interface. I'd been thinking about it for a while as it solves some other input issues. I went today and got a Focusrite 18i8. Very easy to set up and initial impressions are the sound is much clearer, less bass heavy and with more separation of combi parts than using the Kronos on its own...
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1047
Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update.
Pleased you've found a solution by using an interface,as others have.

The fundamental problem remains unresolved though,so this topic will probably crop up again in the future.
So the saga continues.... Wink

Best Wishes.
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bmtg



Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunnar wrote:
bmtg wrote:
For what it's worth, I have the issue running El Capitan, so it's not Sierra only.

Cheers
bmtg


On El Capitan, was it always or in certain situations?

I ask because I did experience distorted audio coming out of the Kronos' USB Audio Out on El Capitan also. But that only happened when I had a lot of stuff going on in Reaper (my DAW). 20-30+ tracks with individual EQ, some bus routing, some reverbs, some delays, some compressions, etc, you get the idea. The distortion I would appear after playing a short while, say 10-30 seconds. Now, I always blamed this on my 13 inch MacBook Pro not being able to cope, due to its mediocre DualCore i5 CPU.

The difference on Sierra, is that it now happens all the time, right away, regardless of what is played. Even when playing a .wav file from disk.


On my El Capitan laptop it is intermittent. Sometimes I plug the USB in, fire up Kontakt, and within 15 seconds it is garbled. Other times, I can play for an hour with no issue. usually if I unplug and replug the USB a few times, it seems to find a stable connection.

bmtg
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