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PA4X versus Korg kronos Question

 
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: PA4X versus Korg kronos Question Reply with quote

i've decided to add a keyboard to my studio, i've compared the tyros 5 and the pa4x. Both keyboards are great but i liked the pa4x sound a little bit more then the tyros 5 sound. So probably i will add the pa4x to my studio. However, i'm still not quite sure yet, i have a feeling that a lot of the sounds are already covered by the korg kronos that i have.

So i have two questions:
1. for the people here that have a korg kronos and a pa4x, is this a good combination to use? Or is a tyros 5 (or genog in the near future) a better solution if you already have a korg kronos?

2. is the 61 keys version sufficient (considering that it's a keyboard), or can i better buy the 76 keys version?
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kbrkr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Qui,

I have both the K276 and the Pa4x 76.

In my opinion (as sound is very subjective), I find the Pa4x acoustic sounds much better than the Kronos. The Brass, Sax, Strings, Guitars, Flutes, etc. are much much better on the Pa4x; especially with the DNC. You will hear a lot of similarities in the Pa4x Synth section to the Kronos. It is great to be able to use Kronos multi-samples in the Pa4x.

Having said that, I replaced my Tyros 5 with the Pa4x because it was lacking in live performance controls and playability. However, the T5 acoustic sounds are some of the best. With the Ensemble function in the T5 you can get some pretty realistic Orchestral sounds.

The JAZZ and ROCK organs in the T5 are horrible and the Leslie function is un-usable unless you are in Drawbar mode. Even then, they just don't compare to other keyboards. The T5 has one of the best Theatre organ sounds I've ever heard; if that's your thing. I think the K2 wins on Organs as I get some great CX3 sounds with my Organimation Sound set.

The T5 has much better vocal and Choir patches.

Lastly, the drums and the styles in the Pa4x are more contemporary and live sounding. You can tweak individual instruments by EQ'ing them or replacing individual sounds.

Overall the T5 sounds like a CD player with everything highly compressed and mixed; I find the T5 styles overdone in most cases with incessant use of Cowbells and Tambourines. The Pa4x is much more LIVE sounding, with outstanding drums and basses.

The ONE thing I cannot live without is the Pa4x's very powerful SONGBOOK function. The T5 implementation is very weak.

Also, with version 2.0 of the O/S, the Midi song to Style converter has been taken to a new level and you can get a really great style with a similar drum beat very quickly and reliably.

I don't know if you are going to perform with the arranger keyboard, if so the Pa4x wins hands down. For sounds in the studio I'm sure you are using VST's like Omnisphere so for that you will probably not need the Tyros 5.

For pure playability, control over the settings, outstanding styles and sounds, I think you would be happy with the Pa4x.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow!

thank you for your extensive answer, it answers almost every question i had. The choir area is not an issue, i created my own choir samplesets that i use since the korg M3, so that's easy to solve.

I want to use it purely for jamming purposes where the styles give me more or less the feeling like playing with a live band. I don't want to use it for live performances i have a different setup for that.

It's good to read that it's easy to create my own styles, i'm sure that i will use that feature a lot.

there aren't any stores here in the area that sell the pa4x, so i have to order it online and can't really try it out in the store. But the thing that sold me was a Pa3x demo from marco parisi, absolutely incredible what he did and it showed me that a keyboard can do so much more then i expected. (this was that demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJr0hklTjw)

The songbook feature is something you can't really find good info about, as i saw on youtube i assume it's something comparable to the setlist in the kronos where it stores the selected style and sounds, are there any example songs in that songbook delivered with the Pa4x?
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI : You can't even imagine Pa4X sample engine potentials ... it's a monster compared to Kronos 2 HD1 that is very weak ,
it will open new dimensions in your sound modeling that no other keyboard sampler engine can handle , and the only
sampler engine that can approach VST sound modeling ! The one way choice for an acoustic instruments sound developer !
As concerned to keybed ... 76 keybed with no questions for a pianist !

Hope this helps
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:

Hope this helps

definitely!

76 keys it is Smile

thanks Smile
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome , I'm aware of your knowledge level from Kronos section , that's why I was very brief and
focused on the "real thing" !
SET LIST is a toy compared to Songbook/main style interface/PAD/KBD SETS , a whole factory that if developed
in the proper way with the proper resources , you will give up any other way of your performing ... Wink
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:
You're welcome , I'm aware of your knowledge level from Kronos section , that's why I was very brief and
focused on the "real thing" !
SET LIST is a toy compared to Songbook/main style interface/PAD/KBD SETS , a whole factory that if developed
in the proper way with the proper resources , you will give up any other way of your performing ... Wink

you are right,
The kronos i know quite well, but i have absolutely no experience whatsoever with keyboard architectures, so i'm looking forward to discover all the possibilities it offers. Very Happy
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Snoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

if you buy online you could try https://www.thomann.de/nl/index.html, they´ve got a 30 day money back guarantee, shoulld be valid in NL as well.

Depending on your kind of music you should take the "MUSIKANT" Version into consideration. It has more ( especially german / northern Europe like- ) styles / sounds and the harddisk is built in already.

You can load all styles from the INTERNATIONAL Version into MUSIKANT BUT NOT!!! vice versa !

Musikant-styles dont´t work in the international as they do in the musikant-version, due to copyright and missing sounds.

Toot ziens and mojen dag from Ostfriesland

P.S.: See this "MUSIKANT"-video ( in german language ) from Jürgen Sartorius, recorded in Erfurt 2016 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daJJBlWQn1c
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Qui

I have the PA4x and also the Kronos (nearly 5 yrs old now)
The PA4X and Kronos are an excellent match.
I find very little overlap between them - I often use the Kronos MIDI'd from the PA4X, playing styles with fabulous Kronos sounds as lead instrument with my right hand - and very often they are the outstanding sounds from your library (I have them all!!)
I think you will love the flexibility of the DNC features - something I wish was on my Kronos.

As much as the Tyros is a nice keyboard I found mine to be far less suitable for live playing and also recording - there are quite a few necessary functions that are often required to be instantly available whilst playing or recording like tempo lock, Bass inversion etc - Tyros makes these very uncomfortable to operate (in fact it doesn't even have a tempo lock!)
I had to get rid of my Tyros for these and other reasons.
The Korg PA4X is the best yet for these purposes - great control surface and very intuitive and logical Operating System - SONGBOOK feature is a powerhouse - SETLIST feature I can't do without now. I am not starting a Yamaha vs Korg thing here but in summary the PA4X is the "professional" of the two by far.

All the best with your decision and let us know if there is any way we can help.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
P.S. Thanks again for your fabulous sound libraries and tutorials Applause Applause Dancing
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Korg:------ PA4X-76, Kronos-61, WaveDrum Global
Roland:---- Integra-7, HS5 session mixer, A800 Pro MIDI controller
Premier:--- Mid 90's Genista
Yamaha:--- DTXtreme IIIs
Casio:------ MZ-X500 (Don't react until you've tried one!!!)
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks everyone for your answers, it helped me a lot and did answer things i didn't know upfront, like for instance the extra sounds on the musikant version and the fact that the 61 international pa4x is missing a harddrive.

based on the answers in this thread I've ordered the :
Pa4x international 76 keys + PaAs system

this one makes it possible to share the sounds and styles across all pa4x versions plus it already has a harddisk which is quite convenient for my existing sample libraries that i created for the kronos.

It takes 1 till 2 weeks to get it from the store, but after that, it's pa4x time.

I probably will bother you in the next months with some questions, but i'm looking forward to the sound and jamming discovering journey ahead Very Happy
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Bescki
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is it possible to convert kronoss samples to korg pa4x? or maybce it is simple just to copy and maybe pa4x can read samples of kronos?
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bescki wrote:
is it possible to convert kronoss samples to korg pa4x? or maybce it is simple just to copy and maybe pa4x can read samples of kronos?

in theory yes,

the pa4x can read KMP, KSF and SF2 files.
But the kronos has more memory so you have to take that in account when creating sample sets for the pa4x, the pa4x has 400 MB of ram or 800 MB when you compress the samples.

But it's rather easy to create samplesets from your favorite hardware or VST (virtual instruments) and load those in the Pa4x. I use Samplerobot for this which does a lot of the work for you.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiRobinez wrote:
thanks everyone for your answers, it helped me a lot and did answer things i didn't know upfront, like for instance the extra sounds on the musikant version and the fact that the 61 international pa4x is missing a harddrive.

based on the answers in this thread I've ordered the :
Pa4x international 76 keys + PaAs system

this one makes it possible to share the sounds and styles across all pa4x versions plus it already has a harddisk which is quite convenient for my existing sample libraries that i created for the kronos.

It takes 1 till 2 weeks to get it from the store, but after that, it's pa4x time.

I probably will bother you in the next months with some questions, but i'm looking forward to the sound and jamming discovering journey ahead Very Happy


I kind of missed your post...

I owned a Tyros 5 for 2 years and moved on to the pa4x last winter... and despite some very nice features on the tyros5 (ensemble voice, sa2 sounds and organ world) i never looked back..

All sounds on the pa4x are atleast competitive. On top of that the pa4x offers things the hd engine of the kronos misses out on... its a different engine with different options.. which shines for many of the acoustic orchestral sounds..

When it comes to styles, which to me is the reason someone would buy an arranger keyboard, and interface, the pa4x is master of them all.


Pa4x is the best choice from the two, however, in september Yamaha is planning to release a new arranger key named Genos, which could be a huge surprise, or a dissapointment, remains to be seen if Yamaha can make another step after the Montage


I am looking forward to see and hear, you combining pa4x styles and pads with the Karma of the Kronos. Both make an incredible team together.
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