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Audio track and combie mix goes out of time.

 
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Scarecrow
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Joined: 26 Jan 2017
Posts: 135
Location: West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Audio track and combie mix goes out of time. Reply with quote
Hi,

While playing a song which is made up of a pre recorded audio track and an imported live combie I play over it, I tried to set the speed a bit faster but the karma of the combie went out of time even thought its speed is the same as the song, have I missed something?
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Audio track and combie mix goes out of time. Reply with quote
Scarecrow wrote:
Hi,

While playing a song which is made up of a pre recorded audio track and an imported live combie I play over it, I tried to set the speed a bit faster but the karma of the combie went out of time even thought its speed is the same as the song, have I missed something?


I play 'pre recorded audio ' as WAV files in the SEQ. So , in that mode, I noticed you can't (easily) change the tempo of the WAV by altering Tempo Mode
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Scarecrow
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Joined: 26 Jan 2017
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Location: West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I made my song in midi mode with all the effects, dumped that on an audio track, then copied from combie with effects and I play it together, so are you saying that I will have to re record my midi at the tempo I want to speed the whole song up? ps I'm in sequencer mode.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scarecrow wrote:
I made my song in midi mode with all the effects, dumped that on an audio track, then copied from combie with effects and I play it together, so are you saying that I will have to re record my midi at the tempo I want to speed the whole song up? ps I'm in sequencer mode.


Easiest thing to do, if you still have the original Midi track you dumped to audio track, is to go back to the original mid tracks and adjust the tempo to what you need and then dump it to audio.
Always save you work at every stage of the process for cases such as when you have to recall midi tracks that were sent to audio tracks in the wrong tempo. Otherwise you are faced with what is outlined below.

Audio does not speed up and slow down the same way as midi notation. Audio changes pitch when slowing down or speeding up in terms of the actual stream of audio.
When audio driven by midi notes slows tempo without pitch change, it is not the audio based samples changing tempo but the rate at which the notes turn the sampled audio on and off.
You will either have to redo your audio tracks at the tempo needed or edit the audio with special features like "time stretch". Time stretch is in the sampling page though. You have audio event edit in Sequencer tracks menu commands but i never noticed "time stretch" there. Only in sampling page.
Samples recorded at a single pitch, demonstrate the pitch change effect when the finished sample sounds really slow and deep on the low register and high pitch like a chipmunk on the high register. Speeding and slowing down the actual audio stream changes the pitch.
If you slow down or speed up your audio tracks, you would have to do pitch corrections afterwards and that may bring you back to where you started if not for special features like "time stretch".
Also, audio tracks can have related midi or sys-ex data attached to them and their region of application can get distorted when you go in manually adjusting where the audio fits along the beat ticks and measures.
Sampling mode gives you time stretch as well as beat tick and measure markers to keep track of where things are relative to the beat and measure as the audio moves around to adjust to the tempo changes.

Page 747 parameter guide
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time Stretch
Time Stretch lengthens or shortens a sample without changing its pitch. This is convenient when you wish to change the tempo of a rhythm loop (drums) or a melodic sample (e.g., vocal, strings, winds) to match the tempo of another sample or of the sequencer. The KRONOS provides two ways in which Time Stretch can be executed.
This command also supports stereo samples.
Sustaining
This type is suitable for sustained sounds such as vocal or instruments. Using it to change the tempo of phrases such as guitar or piano will also produce good results.
Slice
This type is suitable for decay-type instruments such as drums. Using it to change the tempo of drum or percussion loops will produce good results with minimal effect on the attack.
Note: It is possible to change the pitch when you adjust the tempo of a rhythm loop or similar sample, using the Detune BPM Adjust menu command. You can create interesting effects by raising or lowering the pitch of a drum sound. For more information, see “Detune BPM Adjust” on page 508.
Using Time Stretch (Sustaining)

1. Select the sample that you wish to time-stretch using the Sustaining method.
~~~~~~~~~

Last edited by 19naia on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Time stretch limitations in the ratio setting that determines the decrease or increase in tempo per time stretch. It allows as low as cutting tempo in half and as high as doubling tempo. No more and no less.
50% of original tempo to 200% of original tempo. Also it is limited to 480bpm stretch maximum and 40bpm minimum.

Also the final result will be an improvement but not always an accuracy, because the ratio system used can only give an approximation based on the numbers you input. Even numbers into even numbers will most often be accurate compared to odd numbers into even numbers with a percentage input that involves decimal fractions of a percentage. Requires some multiplication and division to dial in on a nice and even tempo adjustment.

See Page 747 and up, paprameter guide.
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Wagnergrad96
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Joined: 11 Mar 2016
Posts: 134
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When you are playing along with .wav files you have to make sure that the tempo doesn't change at all. Maybe there is a tempo change in the Master Track.
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