Korg Forums

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10398

Poor little Genos seems to be on a roller-coaster right now.
I really want to play it (2 weeks to go) but I simply cannot get past its specs and docs which read like a copy/paste from the Tyros 5.

Yamaha have always over-DSP'd IMHO - and yes it sounds nice but when I had both Tyros and PA3X the truth for me was hearing the raw multisamples.
BUT it doesn't matter if you hide some of that with DSP as long as it sounds the way you want.

I still hear it as a nice "in the lounge" sound but not "at the gig" sound. My good friend (and superb keyboard player) is an outstanding music recording engineer - best I've ever met
he is very brutally honest with his opinions and has so far been well impressed with the PA4X and Kronos from a professional playing and recording point of view - must get him to review this Genos machine!!

What often puzzles me about the many many posts regarding good/bad/ugly pianos is that, in the end, they are digital samples - how you hear them depends on DSP, EQ, sound system. headphones etc..etc..
There cannot be anything close to a real grand piano other than a real grand piano, so something that suits one person (and not another) depends on so many other factors.

I do fully empathise with the "pianists" wanting that pure acoustic sound - I feel the same way about drums - as yet, I have not heard any digital (acoustic) drum samples that are truly realistic. BUT Korg and Yamaha have done a great job so far.

OT - Genos - I think it will sell if not only to it's loyal Tyros fans but as D575 says "...Well Genos is not a pro instrument that is now apparent..."
Time will tell where this goes....

Pete Very Happy

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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy

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D575 · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject:

As we are talking about pianos....here is some interesting viewing regarding this subject https://youtu.be/2mNaqGldBBg from a few years ago ...
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10398

That's fascinating!!
I was amused by the comment underneath "...is it better than a real piano..." is a weird total contradiction of terms

Maybe they meant "better" from a tweaking/editing point of view

Thanks for the link

Pete Very Happy

_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy

------------------------------------------------------------------

Stilli · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:42 am Post subject:

D575 · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:06 am Post subject:

AntonySharmman · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:07 am Post subject:

Well some properties in sound environment , request a somehow deep knowledge in sound engineering !

You seem that confusing of what you hear in realtime with specific phsychoacoustic properties with what you
hear from lounspeakers when this was recorded and then reproduced !
For instance , when you hit a drum snare while recording it (under perfect conditions) then the sonic feeling
when listening to this recording is totally different from the realtime played feeling !
The reason is crystal clear ... your ears initially listened 110dbm of real time played snare and ears have a
logarithmic response in "brain recording" that can be recreated only when your speakers (of excellent quality)
will reproduce those 110dbm under the same environment emulation , of actually 600Watts of audio power !
Therefore according to sound engineering rules , you compare only recorded natural Music instruments and
never what you hear in real time that in most of times is false with distrortion caused by ears over 100-105dbm !
Your sound source is always recorded when reproduced (CDs , Wav , Flac) so our sonic inheritance is always
"digital samples" when we hear and enjoy Music.

And yes , a perfect acoustic piano or Drum kit can be heard worse than a VST because sound engineer did not
captured them properly , and I'm frequently used to that in many years in Music production and studio recordings !
Independently of the current fact in sampler keyboards , I ensure you that acoustic piano is one of the most easiest
acoustic instruments to be simulated for more than 90% when samples size is devoted , compared with other string
acoustic instruments where natural articulations and human expression are very complex !

Hope this helps
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

D575 · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject:

GENOS Rerference Manual https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html#product-tabs
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

AntonySharmman · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject:

I had a brief look only at "Editing Voices" chapter , and Genos seems with more restricted sound editing than Tyros 5 !
Wasting of time to deal with it , nice extra gear as a sound rack expansion for 800$ with potentials of extra factory
voices expansions ! Laughing

_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3126

D575 · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject:

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10398

I'd definitely jump towards Ketron if anyone in Australia cared about it - support and sales is terrible. I don't think Ketron care much.

Back to Genos - my expectations are completely crushed.

Very Happy

_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy

------------------------------------------------------------------

AntonySharmman · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject:

Fransman · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:15 am Post subject:

I had a look and listen to the Voice/Style Demo,

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/audio_video.html#product-tabs

Most of these demos (FantasyFox, Moonwaltz, SwingingMusette) won't get the younger player towards the Genos IMO (very old school).
(still apart from the price).

Most of the sounds and styles do sound very good though (it better be for this amount of money...).

I really like the arpeggiator! Korg could easily implement this in PA's, it's kind of already there with KAOS.
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Musical grtz, Frans

Play in style. Wink

chelsea4023 · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:50 pm Post subject:

Hi Guys,

I hope I do not get in trouble with the Moderators for posting this, but in view of the outrageous price of a new Genos, I would like to show what your money gets you in the U.K. (please bear in mind this is pristine, comes with an EC5 controller and a sustain pedal as well.
Just for the record, I bought my PA4X 61 (brand new) and a Viscount Legend Live two manual Hammond clone (brand new) together for £459 cheaper than a new Genos would cost me.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222699038688?ul_noapp=true

Chris

p.s. It's not my PA4X, no way am I selling mine !!

chelsea4023 · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject:

Hi,

In view of my previous post, I do have to say that the Genos is a very nice piece of kit. The sounds are amazing, there are features I would love to see on a Korg arranger.
The guitar strumming demo by Martin Harris was stunning. This feature would be a very useful and effective addition to any arranger.

I'm not one for delving too deep in the sound editing menus, so the Genos wouldn't be a problem for me. I think the standard sounds on it are equal to the PA4X (some obviously better).

The issue for me is the pricing. The dealers have been pegged backed on profit margins therefore limiting their ability to offer good deals to buyers. I doubt the price you end up paying will drop much below the current selling price. It's a lot of money for an arranger, especially when most arranger owners suffer with the 'upgrade' bug every three or four years.

Had the Genos been around the £2,500 mark, I would have been seriously interested in getting one to go alongside my PA4X.

I have made many 'Yamaha' friends at the Festivals over the years and sadly my heart dropped when I realised how much they will all be paying to upgrade to the Genos.

One final point, I'm really confused why they are only producing a 76 note model. Surely three different keyboard sizes (including 88 note weighted) would sell more units overall ?

Chris