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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: Questions about MIDI Control |
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Hello all!
I just joined this forum and hope to become a Korg PA4X owner soon. I did search the forum for 'MIDI Controller' first and only got a few hits.
I wanted to see if I could get some info on using the PA4X as a MIDI Controller, for very basic task of playing an external rack module as one of the UPPER choices. I do a one man band gig and currently use an Alesis QS7.1 strictly as a controller over my rack module. What makes it an excellent controller is it's ability to SPLIT/LAYER all 16 MIDI channels, sending the data to either the internal sounds or to the MIDI OUT, which is what I do.
I'm looking to integrate a PA4X into my rig over the course of months, while still using it to play gigs 5 days a week. The way I envision doing that is to duplicate the 30 or so generic SPLITS from my Alesis (which I use for 300+ SMF), saving them to the USER slots for KEYBOARD SETS, then over the months switch each song's sounds from EXTERNAL to the INTERNAL PA4X sounds, and convert some to STYLES.
A few questions:
* Can you assign any/all of the 3 UPPER and 1 LOWER to the MIDI OUT? EXAMPLE:
LOWER: PA4X Organ
UPPER 1: PA4X Piano
UPPER 2: Rack Module Steel Guitar
UPPER 3: Rack Module Trumpet
* If so, can you save these configurations as a KEYBOARD SET? Or is it strictly a GLOBAL setting?
* I'm assuming all PA4X INTERNAL instruments and KEYBOARD SETS can be called up via MIDI Program Change, correct?
* Are the UPPER and LOWER fixed on MIDI Channels 1-4? Or could you have them on any MIDI Channel, at the KEYBOARD SET level (not GLOBAL)?
I'll stop for now.  If anyone can answer any of these questions, I'd be grateful. |
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Nemik
Approved Merchant
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 1725
Location: Hilton Head Island, SC
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:07 am Post subject: |
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yes you can.
post what you need including keyboards. and we help you
_________________
Nemik
Korg Kronos2-61, Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49, Akai Professional MPK225 , Alesis QX-49, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2, Korg nanoPad2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010 with UnO, Behringer X2222 USB, TASCAM Model 24 Mixer, Presonus AudioBox96, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 21, Ableton Live 10 Suite.
Korg Pa5x Sounds at Performers Heaven |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Nemik wrote: | yes you can.
post what you need including keyboards. and we help you |
Yes I can . . . what? Do everything I asked about in the OP?
I posted what I need and there are no keyboards, other than the Alesis I will be replacing with the PA4X. |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10402
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:28 am Post subject: |
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You need to match the UPPER 2&3 output MIDI channels to the INPUT channels on the 2 respective rack modules.
I do this but only for UPPER 1 in order to play the sound on my Kronos - on the PA4X I just created a sound called "No Volume" and edited its OSC volume to 0.
I am sure there might be other ways but this works great for me and the same concept should work well for you.
Select the "No Volume" sound for UPPER 2 & 3.
Probably a good idea to disable MIDI PC changes.
Your PA4X volume sliders should work fine controlling the UPPERS 2 & 3 for the rack module sounds.
| Quote: | | * If so, can you save these configurations as a KEYBOARD SET? Or is it strictly a GLOBAL setting? |
KEYBOARD-SET is fine unless you want to change the MIDI channel settings - then you need to change MIDI in GLOBAL mode
| Quote: | | * I'm assuming all PA4X INTERNAL instruments and KEYBOARD SETS can be called up via MIDI Program Change, correct? |
Yes - the manual has the MIDI details
| Quote: | | * Are the UPPER and LOWER fixed on MIDI Channels 1-4? Or could you have them on any MIDI Channel, at the KEYBOARD SET level (not GLOBAL)? |
You can use the default or change them in GLOBAL mode but you can't have different KEYBOARD-SETs with different MIDI channel settings
Hope this helps
Pete 
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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Nemik
Approved Merchant
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 1725
Location: Hilton Head Island, SC
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: |
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You can also go in Style Play Mode to Menu/ Track Control and set one of Upper to External (by default is set for Both, Int. & Ext.), then if you know your Alesis QS7 patch location set on Korg and Korg will even change patch on external for you, means you can have different sounds on each STS and Korg will do changing.
more info you can find in manual on page #173.
_________________
Nemik
Korg Kronos2-61, Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49, Akai Professional MPK225 , Alesis QX-49, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2, Korg nanoPad2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010 with UnO, Behringer X2222 USB, TASCAM Model 24 Mixer, Presonus AudioBox96, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 21, Ableton Live 10 Suite.
Korg Pa5x Sounds at Performers Heaven |
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Fransman
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1095
Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Nemik wrote: | You can also go in Style Play Mode to Menu/ Track Control and set one of Upper to External (by default is set for Both, Int. & Ext.), then if you know your Alesis QS7 patch location set on Korg and Korg will even change patch on external for you, means you can have different sounds on each STS and Korg will do changing.
more info you can find in manual on page #173. |
This is exactly how I use my sound module (the fantastic Korg TR Rack) with Upper 3 and this works fine.
There's only one downside: you cannot change all track control settings of all of your KBD Sets and STSs in one go. Would be handy if there was a Global setting for this.
By default they're ALL set to "Both" by Korg. So in case you don't want both internal and external sound playing at the same time (in most cases you don't want that, because you get lots of weird combinations), you have to change them one by one manually to 'internal' or 'external', the choice is up to you.
This is quite some work (I've spend a few hours on it), but once it is done, it works like a charm. Of course you only need to do it for KBD Sets and STSs where Up3 is UNmuted.
I've set most of my Up3's to 'Internal', except when I intentionally want to use the external sound module, then I've set it to 'External'.
This gives me full control of the sound in Up3.
So you can use your sound module(s) as an extra sound source, but if you want to change back to internal sound on Up3, just change the track control to 'Internal'.
Of course you can save this setting in your KBD Sets and STSs.
I've printed a list of the midi select codes for the sounds in my external module. You can pick a sound directly from your PA4X by just typing the code, for instance "000.001.002".
(You can even type "0.1.2" and your PA4X will translate it to "000.001.002" automatically. )
In your KBD Set or STS you can even set the panning and volume for the UP3 from the external sound source. This works fine.
However, you cannot use any PA4X effect on the external signal, that is, not that I know.
_________________
Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style. |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the responses. When I didn't get any after 84 views I started to investigate the Casio MZ-X500 arranger (plus I came down with serious World Series fever!). I'm going to go through some of these and ask some follow-up questions tonight.
Thanks so much! |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | You need to match the UPPER 2&3 output MIDI channels to the INPUT channels on the 2 respective rack modules.
I do this but only for UPPER 1 in order to play the sound on my Kronos - on the PA4X I just created a sound called "No Volume" and edited its OSC volume to 0.
I am sure there might be other ways but this works great for me and the same concept should work well for you.
Select the "No Volume" sound for UPPER 2 & 3.
Probably a good idea to disable MIDI PC changes.
Your PA4X volume sliders should work fine controlling the UPPERS 2 & 3 for the rack module sounds.
| Quote: | | * If so, can you save these configurations as a KEYBOARD SET? Or is it strictly a GLOBAL setting? |
KEYBOARD-SET is fine unless you want to change the MIDI channel settings - then you need to change MIDI in GLOBAL mode
| Quote: | | * I'm assuming all PA4X INTERNAL instruments and KEYBOARD SETS can be called up via MIDI Program Change, correct? |
Yes - the manual has the MIDI details
| Quote: | | * Are the UPPER and LOWER fixed on MIDI Channels 1-4? Or could you have them on any MIDI Channel, at the KEYBOARD SET level (not GLOBAL)? |
You can use the default or change them in GLOBAL mode but you can't have different KEYBOARD-SETs with different MIDI channel settings
Hope this helps
Pete |
This was very helpful, Pete. Thank you and everyone else who replied. I'm going to order my PA4X today. It's a shame that Korg hasn't implemented basic - and I mean very basic - functions that have been available on keyboards for over 20 years. NOTHING should only be available globally in 2017. The fact that they only JUST implemented non-Global SPLIT points in an OS upgrade is shocking. The same should be done with assigning MIDI OUTS and also AUDIO OUTS: I also just found out that you can't assign, say, the LOWER to the Alternate L&R OUTPUTS at the Keyboard Set level. So, if I have a song where I play left-hand bass I can't have it go to it's own mixer channel. Unless I go in and change the Global setting. For one song. Then go in and change it back. Pretty ridiculous. |
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pax-eterna
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 76>73 wrote: | | .......The fact that they only JUST implemented non-Global SPLIT points in an OS upgrade is shocking. The same should be done with assigning MIDI OUTS and also AUDIO OUTS: I also just found out that you can't assign, say, the LOWER to the Alternate L&R OUTPUTS at the Keyboard Set level. So, if I have a song where I play left-hand bass I can't have it go to it's own mixer channel. Unless I go in and change the Global setting. For one song. Then go in and change it back. Pretty ridiculous. |
1.Been able to have a different split for every songbokk entry since the PA1x IIRC. Nothing to do with Global. Songbook entry "over-rides" global setting, again IIRC haha.
The SongBook is the ONLY way to run things on the PA series, imho! Then select songs remotely via MIDI.
2.Totally agree here, the assigning of where you want a part to go should be available for each part on a song by song basis, not JUST as a global setting. TBH, I had sort of assumed Korg would have addressed this after so long having this option (since PA1x). I have owned the PA1,2 and 3 and just assumed the 4 would have improved on this.
Again, tbh, after having had the 4 for a week or so now, it is surprising how LITTLE has changed from the pa2/3. Sounds (some, probs only basses and guitars) and some styles are mebbe a tad better, but overall I admit to being underwhelmed. The change to being able to save a chord sequence to the Songbook is about the only saving grace.
But the reality is this could have been simply an OS update to the PA3. There is nothing groundbreaking about the 4 at all.
Had I been able to get a 3 in Australia I would have, but ws stuck wth getting a 4 as Korg Australia reckoned they had none! |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| pax-eterna wrote: | | 76>73 wrote: | | .......The fact that they only JUST implemented non-Global SPLIT points in an OS upgrade is shocking. The same should be done with assigning MIDI OUTS and also AUDIO OUTS: I also just found out that you can't assign, say, the LOWER to the Alternate L&R OUTPUTS at the Keyboard Set level. So, if I have a song where I play left-hand bass I can't have it go to it's own mixer channel. Unless I go in and change the Global setting. For one song. Then go in and change it back. Pretty ridiculous. |
1.Been able to have a different split for every songbokk entry since the PA1x IIRC. Nothing to do with Global. Songbook entry "over-rides" global setting, again IIRC haha.
The SongBook is the ONLY way to run things on the PA series, imho! Then select songs remotely via MIDI. |
Good to know. The manual should be much clearer. |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pax-eterna wrote: | | 76>73 wrote: | | .......The fact that they only JUST implemented non-Global SPLIT points in an OS upgrade is shocking. The same should be done with assigning MIDI OUTS and also AUDIO OUTS: I also just found out that you can't assign, say, the LOWER to the Alternate L&R OUTPUTS at the Keyboard Set level. So, if I have a song where I play left-hand bass I can't have it go to it's own mixer channel. Unless I go in and change the Global setting. For one song. Then go in and change it back. Pretty ridiculous. |
2.Totally agree here, the assigning of where you want a part to go should be available for each part on a song by song basis, not JUST as a global setting. TBH, I had sort of assumed Korg would have addressed this after so long having this option (since PA1x). I have owned the PA1,2 and 3 and just assumed the 4 would have improved on this.
Again, tbh, after having had the 4 for a week or so now, it is surprising how LITTLE has changed from the pa2/3. Sounds (some, probs only basses and guitars) and some styles are mebbe a tad better, but overall I admit to being underwhelmed. The change to being able to save a chord sequence to the Songbook is about the only saving grace.
But the reality is this could have been simply an OS update to the PA3. There is nothing groundbreaking about the 4 at all.
Had I been able to get a 3 in Australia I would have, but ws stuck wth getting a 4 as Korg Australia reckoned they had none! |
I wasn't aware that there was little change. If I was still able to buy a PA3X brand new a lot cheaper than the 4X I would be considering it.
Actually, the only thing I'm still apprehensive about is the keybed. I'll figure out workarounds for any failures of design, but it's disconcerting to buy such an expensive keyboard not having any idea how it feels under your fingers.
I assume most owners are happy with the keyboard action? |
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pax-eterna
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah it's been the same keybed since the PA1x - the Fatar TP8/s http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_8S.htm It's their premium synth keybed. and it is a good one. Has far more "meat" to it than the FSX keybed in the Yammies. jmho haha! |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pax-eterna wrote: | | Yeah it's been the same keybed since the PA1x - the Fatar TP8/s http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_8S.htm It's their premium synth keybed. and it is a good one. Has far more "meat" to it than the FSX keybed in the Yammies. jmho haha! |
Thanks for that info. My Kurzweil PC3 has the TP8, which I believe is the more piano-like action compared to the "s". It has always felt a bit sluggish to me for a semi-weighted. |
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pax-eterna
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 76>73 wrote: | | pax-eterna wrote: | | Yeah it's been the same keybed since the PA1x - the Fatar TP8/s http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_8S.htm It's their premium synth keybed. and it is a good one. Has far more "meat" to it than the FSX keybed in the Yammies. jmho haha! |
Thanks for that info. My Kurzweil PC3 has the TP8, which I believe is the more piano-like action compared to the "s". It has always felt a bit sluggish to me for a semi-weighted. |
The Tp8 is actually the "budget" version haha! I have played it quite a bit in Kurz's and for piano playing the TP8/s kills it tbh....but keybed feel is even more subjective than sounds hahaha!
The only keybed that beats the Korg PA series one (and it's not available anymore) is the one used in the Roland A70 (and then the G1000) |
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76>73
Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| pax-eterna wrote: | | 76>73 wrote: | | pax-eterna wrote: | | Yeah it's been the same keybed since the PA1x - the Fatar TP8/s http://www.fatar.com/pages/TP_8S.htm It's their premium synth keybed. and it is a good one. Has far more "meat" to it than the FSX keybed in the Yammies. jmho haha! |
Thanks for that info. My Kurzweil PC3 has the TP8, which I believe is the more piano-like action compared to the "s". It has always felt a bit sluggish to me for a semi-weighted. |
The Tp8 is actually the "budget" version haha! I have played it quite a bit in Kurz's and for piano playing the TP8/s kills it tbh....but keybed feel is even more subjective than sounds hahaha!
The only keybed that beats the Korg PA series one (and it's not available anymore) is the one used in the Roland A70 (and then the G1000) |
That's funny - I was going to cite the A70 as the all-time #1 synth keybed.  |
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