Korg Forums

vp412 · Joined: 19 Nov 2017 Posts: 5

Does somebody aware about RH3 action change in K2 ? It looks like sensors were moved UP in K2 comparing with K1/KX (I am talking only about 73/88 keys keyboards with RH3).
Moving sensors up means that when somebody try accelerating/slowing key near the "bottom" - results will NOT be the same in K1/KX and in K2. Since sensors placement is lower on K1/KX - this older version of RH3 will respond better on the above slight change in key movement near "bottom", some how approaching to acoustic piano action. In new RH3 velocity measurement will be done near middle position of the key, no reaction to the movement variation near bottom.
It may mean that those who want better similarity with acoustic should try to find second hand Kronos/KronosX instead of buying new Kronos2. Probably Korg did this modification to solve "sound cut-off" problem, but price of this "solution" was moving away from better similarity with acoustic action...

KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

dfahrner · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject:

KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

dfahrner · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:08 am Post subject:

Grambambuli · Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Posts: 17

I had the opportuniy to play a Steinway D in the studio this weekend, what a wonderful instrument. What I noticed is that the RH3 does a very good job and comes pretty close. Of course you cannot imitate a 140k$ instrument perfectly, but playing with the real thing even made me appreciate more what a good job the Kronos does, both keybed- and soundwise.

entonio · Joined: 19 Sep 2020 Posts: 37

IAA · Full Member Joined: 10 Feb 2013 Posts: 131

The RH3 action is very good and unless you are just doing serious classical work I’d not worry about it. Though you really need to try it yourself given keyboard action is very subjective. I tried Yamaha and Roland hammer actions but the RH3 for me was the best. I’m a pianist by training and play a Yamaha grand but I really like the RH3 action on my Kronos X.

KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

Kilroy · Junior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2002 Posts: 90

The thing about getting “the most realistic simulation of an acoustic piano” is that there isn’t any standard feel to compare to. Pianos action changes over time depending on how it’s been played, how it’s been cared for, and maybe even temperature and humidity. Not to mention the brand of the piano and other factors. I’ve played grands on which most of the resistance comes about halfway down and then goes away for the rest of the travel, and some on which it’s very smooth and consistent all the way through the strike. I have a Yamaha C3 and all I can say about the action is that I like it because I’ve gotten used to it, and maybe it’s gotten used to me.

If you buy a korg hammer action you may find that you someday play an acoustic piano that you like more and you may find some that you like less. The thing to do as suggested above, is to play the hell out of one for quite a few hours. Do your fingers feel more fatigued than you’re used to? Is it comfortable for you? Do you like how the strike feels? And can you express yourself as you are accustomed to?

The vexxing thing for me on the Kronos is the velocity curves. Somewhere between four and five is the right curve for me, but of course I can’t choose somewhere between. I just have to get used to it which is what you have to do with any action that you buy acoustic or otherwise. And it really feels different when I’m playing the East West gold pianos which have a different kind of response.

Anyway, I’m not a technician or an expert, but I have played several hundred grand pianos for many, many thousands of hours of my life.

Hector Space · Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject:

As a pianist with more than 40years live work under my belt, on many of the best (and worst!) instruments out there, here’s my view:
The best stage piano/workstation keybeds for piano currently out there are
1. Roland’s PHA50 (as on RD2000)
2. Kawai's GF2 (as on MP11se),
3. Kawai’s RHIII (as on MP7SE, ES8, ES920 and Nord’s GrandStage)
4. Yamaha’s NWX ( P515)
5. Casio Privia PX5s
Korg’s RH3 (various versions of) come below these for real piano action simulation. In fact in my opinion the RH3 is only marginally better for piano than your typical FATAR TP40.

The big issue is in the precision of control affordable from the keybed. With the PHA50 you really do feel like you are totally connected to the instrument. On a TP40 it’s kind of rubbery and imprecise. This might be fine for EP but in no way does it compete with the above or indeed the real thing.

Playing the piano for me is an emotional thing.. it is about being about to convey feeling through your fingers, to be able to extract the full range of timbres and sonic beauty exactly as you command it.

Often in a loud band situation such subtly is wasted. Similarly some styles of music like Bach don’t require it. So that’s why Nord and Kurzweil can get away with only offering the average TP40.

Doesn’t suit me, I’ve spent the last 40years learning to convey the most from my fingers so I bought a K2 61 and play the pianos from either my RD2000 or my PX5S (which is the best lightweight 88 note controller for live band work there is).

Hector Space · Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:30 pm Post subject:

Part of the problem with the Kronos's AP performance is down to the editing facilities provided by the SGX2 engine. On Kawai, Roland, Kurzweil and even some Yamaha’s you have the facility to edit individual notes for pitch, tone and volume. This provides the user with a chance to correct to their taste many of the issues people have with the pianos on the Kronos.

In addition on the Kurzweil Forte you can actually swap out samples. So for example if you cannot get a note to sound how you want you can actually dump it's sample and either stretch the one adjacent (normally the most effective solution) or load in your own.

The SGX2 engine also fails to provide detailed adjustment of velocity. The current two adjustment controls are a real compromise compared to the facilities you get with something like Pianotec. For such a good quality of play back the SGX2 engine should provide curve editing and offset for at least 3 zones across the keybed.

Finally the engine should do some real time interpolation between samples. As done on Kawai instruments to great effect. Ok for single note purists it may be blasphemy but to anyone who actually plays for subtlety what you want is continuous variation between ppp and fff not steps. This is something that the Roland Vpiano does beautifully along with the very realistic merging of multiple notes, something that simple playback struggles with. Korg has a lot to do!

I think the lack of in-depth customisation facilities with SGX2 make the pianos using HD1 a better option. You can change the velocity switch points and layer volumes etc! But you still can’t edit the multi samples grrr! The KApro German grands that use HD1 are much more adjustable and so provide a very good alternative.