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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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danmusician wrote: | I’d actually dispute the idea that the Kronos is expensive. Back in the day when the M1 debuted, the common price point for a workstation keyboard was 2 grand, and that was for 61 key keyboard. A month and a half ago I bought a brand new K2 88 with case for three grand from ProAudioStar. Adjusted for inflation compared to the M1, that’s a bargain! |
I actually thought Kronos was somewhat of a bargain when it came out 6 yrs ago.
Comparisons to an m1 are flawed, sorry. Inflation here in the US is next to nothing over the past 5 yrs. Going back 20-30 yrs ago for an example ? I know this is somewhat argumentative.
But over time, Korg has gotten more efficient and cost effective with Kronos. Thats the way electronic cos roll.
We will never know what their costs are but I suspect their profit margin is rising steadily every year. esp since components decrease in price.
In my ideal world I think Kronos should be cheaper. I am more on the side
of folks with their hard earned money.
I do understand that current purchasers are inclined to defend their investment.
Its like that with all new purchases. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Lightbringer Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 356 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:09 am Post subject: |
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leonh wrote: | What if this is the last workstation taking into consideration that most people use keyboard and DAW think Montage and Cubase or newest Prologue with DAW who knows I am happy go have Kronos but I had M1 ages ago new generation does not have same connection as us so we may have classic on our hands. |
That thought has crossed my mind too. In a world full of $20 iPad music apps that actually sound really good and get constantly updated with new features, I think it's getting harder for a person to reach the conclusion of "I need an expensive flagship workstation."
It has taken me quite a few iterations of trying to cobble the perfect instrument together out of different pieces to get there myself. But I see it now. Or at least I think I do! |
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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:47 am Post subject: Re: What Korg should do if new Kronos not released on NAMM 2 |
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highlandstudio91 wrote: | andersborg wrote: | They could optimize the hardware, to make it cheaper to produce, add a larger SSD, add a higher resolution display (provided the UI is re-designed to make use of it), add more pre-installed instruments etc.
Maybe release a mid-price model, the way the M50 was a budget M3, without a few of the more costly features? |
In terms of optimization,all I would like to see,is Korg utilize flash memory,as Yamaha has done with their XF series.
I was thinking very much along the same lines,regarding wanting Korg to come out with a M3-style keyboard.
The Kross 2 was brilliant...but what I really want,is to have an all-in-one alternative to a PC workstation,as I have grown very weary of dealing with software installation issues,registration issues and Windows 10 problems.
The Kronos is virtually everything I ever wanted in a keyboard workstation,but I am really frustrated with Korg,for not using flash memory in their keyboards!Why??Flash memory is so incredibly inexpensive these days and Roland has finally utilized flash memory with their mid-grade workstation(FA-series.)
Slow,outdated OS's that Korg uses,is the very reason why I won't deviate from my PC workstation & I just cannot justify spending thousands of dollars for a keyboard that takes just as long to boot up,as my computer...WTF!?
If the Yamaha Genos wasn't $5,500....I would have gone that route,with no hesitation.
I'll wait and see what turns up in the upcoming Winter Namm(hopefully,Yamaha will have made a successor to their Motif XF-series and if that is the case,I will leave Korg in the dust and never look back. [/b] |
You seem to be missing the significance of the SSD-streaming. The Kronos, like Kontakt, Omnisphere, Keyscape, all VST piano libraries, uses disk streaming. Even with the somewhat limited RAM in the Kronos, the user can have instant access to 30GB - 40GB of samples. The Montage comes with 5GB of factory sounds and 1.75GB left for user. The Nord Stage 3 has 2.5GB total. But these are tiny in comparison to the Kronos. Plus, it takes about 1.5 minutes to clear RAM and load an entirely different set of samples stored on the SSD. When I owned the Motif XF, it took somewhere 45 mins to one hour to clear 2GB of FLASH and load in a new set.
Streaming is brilliant. The instrument is created as you play. Nothing it wasted. One song, the notes you play might require 2GB of samples, on the next song only 400MB. The samples are brought in only as needed. Flash is just an updated version of cramming everything into RAM, whether you require it or not. For Korg to move to Flash would be a HUGE regression.
Busch. _________________ Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
http://www.purgatorycreek.com |
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highlandstudio91 Junior Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2017 Posts: 55
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:51 am Post subject: |
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burningbusch,
Thank you for the extremely useful info,much appreciated!I'm coming from some very bad experiences(having previously owned the M3 & Krome.)The M3 was notorious for having painfully slow load times and my OS on it had crashed,so I had sold it.
The Krome was very sluggish as well and I had two Krome's,with faulty OS's and returned them both.
The Kronos has a very spotty history and I've read countless posts,of users complaining how outdated Korg's software is.
Perhaps Korg's latest offerings on the Kronos are solid,but I must be convinced entirely,before I lay down $3,500+ on a keyboard(rather than upgrading to a new PC workstation,which would cost half as much.) |
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burningbusch Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1203 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:00 am Post subject: |
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highlandstudio91 wrote: | burningbusch,
Thank you for the extremely useful info,much appreciated!I'm coming from some very bad experiences(having previously owned the M3 & Krome.)The M3 was notorious for having painfully slow load times and my OS on it had crashed,so I had sold it.
The Krome was very sluggish as well and I had two Krome's,with faulty OS's and returned them both.
The Kronos has a very spotty history and I've read countless posts,of users complaining how outdated Korg's software is.
Perhaps Korg's latest offerings on the Kronos are solid,but I must be convinced entirely,before I lay down $3,500+ on a keyboard(rather than upgrading to a new PC workstation,which would cost half as much.) |
Understood.
Busch. _________________ Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
http://www.purgatorycreek.com |
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highlandstudio91 Junior Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2017 Posts: 55
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:17 am Post subject: |
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GregC wrote: |
I actually thought Kronos was somewhat of a bargain when it came out 6 yrs ago.
In my ideal world I think Kronos should be cheaper. I am more on the side
of folks with their hard earned money.
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Considering that Oasys was roughly twice as much money,who on earth,would NOT have thought that the Kronos was a bargain??
While it is wonderful,to have an all-in-one workstation solution...in a hardware keyboard for half the price of what it would have been 6 years ago...well,the evolution of ever-advancing technology,is a big factor,regarding it's current price point.
Also...Korg cut many corners initially and the Kronos was plagued with various tech issues(whereas the Oasys was rock solid,across the board)....& let's not forget the additional physical controls and the 10.4" tiltable display of the Oasys!)
Still though....the current Kronos seems to have had all of the bugs ironed out and after all these years,it still remains the best bang for your buck,in the hardware keyboard market and will probably continue to reign as the ultimate value,for quite some time.
My sincere hope is though,that one of Korg's competitors will release something profoundly innovative for a reasonable price,which would force Korg to be even more competitve price-wise and feature-wise.
I've waited many years,to see what would pop up....but perhaps now,it's time for me to become serious about setting aside my petty cash from my meager monthly income,to invest in a Kronos and the onset of the Winter Namm this year,will determine where my dollars will go to. |
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tdwctdwc Full Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2012 Posts: 217
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Not to be dramatic, but i feel that in a few years the workstation (in its definition = built in SEQ etc..) will be viewed as the "Compact Disc" of the synth world.
I totally understand Korg focusing on analog innovation, but i also see them updating the Korg Kronos with new engines. In my opinion, nothing rivals the Kronos in terms of synth power and sound. _________________ A preview of my upcoming solo piano album: https://youtu.be/Cj9a_xATx-g |
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Broadwave Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: |
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tdwctdwc wrote: | Not to be dramatic, but i feel that in a few years the workstation (in its definition = built in SEQ etc..) will be viewed as the "Compact Disc" of the synth world. |
But a "Compact Disc" is still superior to an average "MP3". Leading to the question what's the MP3 of the synth world?
So, by that analogy, I'm more than happy to keep my Kronos _________________ Synth DIY Projects |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Broadwave wrote: | tdwctdwc wrote: | Not to be dramatic, but i feel that in a few years the workstation (in its definition = built in SEQ etc..) will be viewed as the "Compact Disc" of the synth world. |
But a "Compact Disc" is still superior to an average "MP3". Leading to the question what's the MP3 of the synth world?
So, by that analogy, I'm more than happy to keep my Kronos |
I get amused by subtle digs at the CD format. Like there is some kind of 'tech intelligencia ' that knows better.
CD's sound great to this day. Very convenient- I distribute my many songs on CD.
Yes, yes, newer cars don't have CD players, sales of CD decks/players are minimal. I don't care. Folks can play CD's on their PCs etc. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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tdwctdwc Full Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2012 Posts: 217
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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GregC wrote: | Broadwave wrote: | tdwctdwc wrote: | Not to be dramatic, but i feel that in a few years the workstation (in its definition = built in SEQ etc..) will be viewed as the "Compact Disc" of the synth world. |
But a "Compact Disc" is still superior to an average "MP3". Leading to the question what's the MP3 of the synth world?
So, by that analogy, I'm more than happy to keep my Kronos |
I get amused by subtle digs at the CD format. Like there is some kind of 'tech intelligencia ' that knows better.
CD's sound great to this day. Very convenient- I distribute my many songs on CD.
Yes, yes, newer cars don't have CD players, sales of CD decks/players are minimal. I don't care. Folks can play CD's on their PCs etc. | Sorry i hurt your feelings. No one said CDs don't sound great. I have a large collection of cds/concert DVDS that i collected over the years. They're sitting there collecting dust now. 90% of that collection i stream it on apple music (or similar services).
As for mp3s, there are better quality choices like wav or flac. All my albums online are sold digitally in flac.
To each their own:) _________________ A preview of my upcoming solo piano album: https://youtu.be/Cj9a_xATx-g |
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danmusician Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 875 Location: Southern PA
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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GregC wrote: | CD's sound great to this day. Very convenient- I distribute my many songs on CD. |
At my live performances, I give the audience the choice of CD format or digital download. CDs out pace downloads by a wide, wide margin. _________________ Kronos 2 88, Kronos Classic 73, PX-5S, Kronos 2 61, Roli Seaboard Rise 49 |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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danmusician wrote: | GregC wrote: | CD's sound great to this day. Very convenient- I distribute my many songs on CD. |
At my live performances, I give the audience the choice of CD format or digital download. CDs out pace downloads by a wide, wide margin. |
I agree. We have folks that like to stream from their smart phones, digital devices, etc. I point them to Sound Cloud, etc.
Locally, and to friends and family, they like the CD . I personalize the CD with song notes, some art , etc. It takes more effort/expense, but I think something tangible is a good way to promote. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Carsten45
Joined: 19 Jan 2018 Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: Two great ideas |
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I would like to have another Auto sampling mode. Select midi port, external Input, type of Instrument "natural", "synth", step size, length, release. On start the Kronos triggers automatically an external midi device and automatically creates multisamples. If type=natural the Auto sampling will try to record with Expression, means pp, p, f, ff and synth is more basic sampling. All multisamples get automatically assigned and also Indexes are created automatically. Would be a great Feature.
Add two new engines from grandstage
Speed up start up by removing uncessary file checks
32 tracks out usb to Daw
Have a internet plattform to exchange single Programms and combis directly out of the Kronos
And dear Korg I would also buy an upgrade kit to a 64bit OS and 8GB Ram |
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holdsg Full Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 Posts: 229 Location: Alta Loma, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Plus wasn't the Kronos LS just released last year? That was kinda a re-fresh of sorts (ok, just a diff, lighter, keybed). I have pre-alz brain, so I'm not so sure. _________________ Bass and keyboard player, not usually at the same time, but sometimes in the same song!
Boards: Kronos 2, and Hammond SK1
Basses: Fender, G&L |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:12 am Post subject: |
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holdsg wrote: | Plus wasn't the Kronos LS just released last year? That was kinda a re-fresh of sorts (ok, just a diff, lighter, keybed). I have pre-alz brain, so I'm not so sure. |
not a wishy washy freshener.
has the same sounds as my +6 yr old Kronos _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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