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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: |
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My new iPhone X is awesome. Love it. It's absolutely the perfect size.
My old iPad works flawlessly every day. For part of the day, I basically use it as a small TV.
My new 2017 15" MacBook Pro is a stunning piece of machinery. Really. Can't say how impressed I am.
Much of this stuff you are talking about here is Apple Haters making fake news.
Oh, right, I forgot - all corporations are evil and trying to screw their customers.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | My new iPhone X is awesome. Love it. It's absolutely the perfect size.
My old iPad works flawlessly every day. For part of the day, I basically use it as a small TV.
My new 2017 15" MacBook Pro is a stunning piece of machinery. Really. Can't say how impressed I am.
Much of this stuff you are talking about here is Apple Haters making fake news.
Oh, right, I forgot - all corporations are evil and trying to screw their customers. |
Stephen - a bit of Ad Hominem going on here - could I ask you to refute/attack the points I made and not attack the character of those making them. If you will - refute the points on loss of device ports, sockets and bus standards on their devices; refute the MIDI and track-cound limitations of LPX; comment on why Apple pays no taxes worth talking about, anywhere; and why they are paying land property tax to a valuation of $56 Million Dollars for a $1billion building in PaloAalto.
To answer you specific points:
- iPad 1: Apple dropped all iOS support for it after only 3 years after release!
- The maximum RAM in the existing MBP is 16GB - the same as an early 2011 MBP.
- All RAM in all Macs is soldered in; not upgradable, and they charge 3-times the price for RAM as the likes of Crucial
- The iPhone 7 has no headphone socket so you have to use an adaptor meaning you can't charge the device while listening to music on it
- All ports have been removed from the latest MBP and MBA and replaces by a single TB port!
... I could go on, again, with what are commonly recognised issues, globally.
You may be OK with all of that - but that doesn't make it all OK: other users who have the need for all of the above to be better are surely entitled to expect the quality and standards set out by Apple in the past - and more importantly - are in need.
As just one example - music pros the world over struggle with Apple's 16 GB limit in their MBP - there was an outcry when the last MPB was released without a 32GB RAM capacity. Another example - the dropping of ports and busses regularly renders Audio Interfaces useless I've just had to remove to perfectly good Firewire audio interfaces because Apple dropped support for it).
Just because you don't have those needs doesn't mean others can contend with the levels of performance, usability and sustainability you seem content with. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | My new iPhone X is awesome. Love it. It's absolutely the perfect size.
My old iPad works flawlessly every day. For part of the day, I basically use it as a small TV.
My new 2017 15" MacBook Pro is a stunning piece of machinery. Really. Can't say how impressed I am.
Much of this stuff you are talking about here is Apple Haters making fake news.
Oh, right, I forgot - all corporations are evil and trying to screw their customers. |
Thats in general how i think, and i agree with you..
My old iphone 6 altough has become a little slugish tough, but then, maybe its time to upgrade after 3 1/2 year the same iphone, that still looks like brandnew..
I can see how apple want to spare old batteries, but i recently replaced my battery for a brand new one. Planning to use the iphone for another 2 years. The latest OS upgrade changed those toughts. Its a little sad that apple doesn’t leave the choice of performance to the customer.
All in all, i am a happy apple camper. Their products to me are near to perfection(thats why i pay so much for them). I own an ipad mini, ipad air, ipad pro, iphone 6 and a 2011 macbook pro still performing top knotch after a memmory and ssd upgrade.
I am on the verge of building a powerfull DAW, and however i came to the conclusion that the mac pro currently is to expensive for me and what it delivers. I may build one myself and run it as a hackintosh. I don’t think apple really worries about people using a hackintosh, as it still requires you to own one or more apple products.
For music in my book there is no other choice then apple, not just the macbook, but espescially ios has become a tool of innovation and creativity, with programs like audiobus3 allowing you to combine all the tools and soundengines into a modular workstation.
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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So they have officially admitted that they are slowing down devices too. Wow... This is disgusting behaviour by Apple.
I hope they end up paying big time for this. Whatever about personal cases where people will sue them, governments should also sue them for violations of trade laws.
I hope the EU also gets them to pay the 13 Billion Euro in unpaid Taxes they own Ireland. That 13 Billion would clear the debt the people of Ireland inherited from the corrupt bankers.
Apple, this is not OK, and is just another two fingers up at the people and goverments of the world. What a disgusting company. People who work for Apple that make these decisions should be arrested. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | So they have officially admitted that they are slowing down devices too. Wow... This is disgusting behaviour by Apple.
I hope they end up paying big time for this. Whatever about personal cases where people will sue them, governments should also sue them for violations of trade laws.
I hope the EU also gets them to pay the 13 Billion Euro in unpaid Taxes they own Ireland. That 13 Billion would clear the debt the people of Ireland inherited from the corrupt bankers.
Apple, this is not OK, and is just another two fingers up at the people and goverments of the world. What a disgusting company. People who work for Apple that make these decisions should be arrested. |
Didn’t Irish politicians make that deal with apple, so apple would come to Ireland? Yes, the same politicians that where befriended with the corrupted bankers?
Its the same everywhere in the world, no matter where you go, its allways taxpayers paying the bills. But to blame Apple for this? They are doing exactly the same as all other major companies in the world, because politicians let them do so.
But then, maybe we should not turn this in a political decision. If you want to blame apple for this, be my guest. In my book they are only just as guilty as the rest..
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | So they have officially admitted that they are slowing down devices too. Wow... This is disgusting behaviour by Apple.
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Sharp - despite my rant - actually - the reason they gave to this is legitimate. They aren't blanket slowing the devices down (to encourage upgrades as is the implied 'conspiracy') - rather - there are load balancing algorithms within iOS that manage power hungry newer OS features on older phones whose batteries are older.
There is a legitimate point made by Greg that one can't upgrade your battery - but even if you could, battery technology is going through a mini-revolution currently so it's entirely reasonable to assume for newer iPhones are just better in that regard.
Note also that older iPhones do not slow down for _all_ operations - but do so dynamically, managed by the OS to give the user longest possible periods before required recharging.
This issue isn't one of Apple behaving badly - and it's likely that many other companies do the same where battery technology is employed in their devices. |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kevin.
If what you believe is true, then logic dictates that they are also doing the same to their MacBooks, Watches, and every battery operated device they sell. If so, excellent. That's totally against the law and they will be sued by everyone.
I call this bullshit to get you to buy the latest model. Time will tell too. They will end up in court so we will see an end result here one way or another regardless of our opinions on the subject.
Can you imagine bring your car into a garage for it's early service only to find out afterwards they limited your speed without your permission. You would sue the garage in a heart beat.
Apple does NOT own the device you purchased from them. You own it. They have no leagal right to do anything without your knowledge and permission to your property. My guess is that's exactly where they will get caught in court.
Sharp.
Last edited by Sharp on Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: |
Didn’t Irish politicians make that deal with apple, so apple would come to Ireland? Yes, the same politicians that where befriended with the corrupted bankers?
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Yep, your right. But.... we are a member of the EU who has very specific rules our Flubberment must obey. You would have to google the entire story to get the full picture here.
Cheers
Sharp. |
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amit
Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 825
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | Hi Kevin.
If what you believe is true, then logic dictates that they are also doing the same to their MacBooks, Watches, and every battery operated device they sell. If so, excellent. That's totally against the law and they will be sued by everyone.
I call this bullshit to get you to buy the latest model. Time will tell too. They will end up in court so we will see an end result here one way or another regardless of our opinions on the subject.
Can you imagine bring your car into a garage for it's early service only to find out afterwards they limited your speed without your permission. You would sue the garage in a heart beat.
Apple does NOT own the device you purchased from them. You own it. They have no leagal right to do anything without your knowledge and permission to your property. My guess is that's exactly where they will get caught in court.
Sharp. |
The Problem argument lies in the fact that though apple does not own the hardware, it still owns the OS that runs on it and you only have a license to it.
The Bigger argument can be had of "Breach of Agreement". Once you Advertise and a Sell a product it should always deliver on what was on paper and the promises. Even if they are deliberately slowing down for a good reason, it can be argued as "Bait and Switch" i.e it will work for a time and then go slow on the user without user having any say or agreement on it.
Its not like an entity like an automobile or something, yes batteries tend to go slow and die and cause problems, but that should be the users decision how to deal with it or what was previously agreed upon, especially when it can be seen as a business tactic to force the user to switch to next generation device.
I dont have a problem with what they are doing, but rather how they are doing it.
_________________
DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | Hi Kevin.
If what you believe is true, then logic dictates that they are also doing the same to their MacBooks, Watches, and every battery operated device they sell. If so, excellent. That's totally against the law and they will be sued by everyone.
I call this bullshit to get you to buy the latest model. Time will tell too. They will end up in court so we will see an end result here one way or another regardless of our opinions on the subject.
Can you imagine bring your car into a garage for it's early service only to find out afterwards they limited your speed without your permission. You would sue the garage in a heart beat.
Apple does NOT own the device you purchased from them. You own it. They have no leagal right to do anything without your knowledge and permission to your property. My guess is that's exactly where they will get caught in court.
Sharp. |
There's no legal issue here - you allow them to run iOS on it, and you've agreed to their terms and conditions - so they have the right to do whatever they like on your phone. But seriously - load balancing is common - in Sun we did it to manage NFS servers in a more regulated, rather than 'fastest possible' way to manage multiple disks (back in the 90's). It was an integral part of the OS. And you know what Sharp - I know of a certain forum that has this annoying 20-second delay between posts - to balance network traffic -  (it's a 'thing' honestly!!).
Anyway - I think it's time to bow out of this and wish everyone a Happy Christmas! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| amit wrote: | [
The Bigger argument can be had of "Breach of Agreement". Once you Advertise and a Sell a product it should always deliver on what was on paper and the promises. Even if they are deliberately slowing down for a good reason, it can be argued as "Bait and Switch" i.e it will work for a time and then go slow on the user without user having any say or agreement on it.
Its not like an entity like an automobile or something, yes batteries tend to go slow and die and cause problems, but that should be the users decision how to deal with it or what was previously agreed upon, especially when it can be seen as a business tactic to force the user to switch to next generation device.
I dont have a problem with what they are doing, but rather how they are doing it. |
I like your post. We should attempt to look at the bigger picture.
Too often, folks see it from their own bubble .. " I love my old iPad ".
Why of course. I like the Apple devices, too. They are useful., et, etc.
There's much more to my small bubble experience.
Lets deal with ugly legal liability. Apple does not want to get sued in class action for exploding lithium batteries running full tilt for 5 years.
We live in a highly litigious world. I think that dictates many business ' decisions'.
You will not get a co like Apple to articulate 'protecting their liability'. You can bet they are.
Legal liability suits are for more risky expensive then dodgy advertising , marketing bait/switch. Those marketing antics push the limit , as seen almost every day, IMO.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There's no legal issue here - you allow them to run iOS on it, and you've agreed to their terms and conditions |
I'm pretty sure it does not say in the Terms and Conditions that Apple has the right so slow down your device.
| Quote: | | so they have the right to do whatever they like on your phone |
No they don't, its not their property and nobody has been asked to give them permission to slow down the device as part of any terms and conditions. Facts are facts.
Nobody has been asked if it's OK for apple to mess with their property in this way.
Lets see what the judges say when Apple are in court though.
| Quote: | | you know what Sharp - I know of a certain forum that has this annoying 20-second delay between posts - to balance network traffic |
Oh Kevin, and I know I guy who don't listen when I keep having to explain that it's a flood prevention feature of phpBB that is designed to slow down Spam Bots from flooding the forum in milliseconds.
As it's set right now, anyone can make up to 3 Posts in 1 minute. For a human, that's more than enough. For a Spam Bot, that's an eternity as they are able to flood the forum with spam in milliseconds when that flood preventions has been removed.
Will this be the last time I have to explain this to you? I'm betting nope...lol.
Happy Christmas to you mate.
Cheers
Sharp. |
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Synthoid
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | Lets see what the judges say when Apple are in court though.
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This.
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M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion |
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amit
Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 825
Location: New Delhi, India
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Here's something to ponder over.
What if Korg follow suit for say the Kronos.
Imagine after every major firmware update, you lose some polyphony.
- at some eventual stage , Karma gets reduced to 2 modules, or audio glitches.
- you start feeling more latency (large sample buffers)
In a nutshell,your older projects no longer work the way they used to.
The things/power/features you need and paid for no longer work as expected as the manufacturer thinks/has started thinking otherwise.
How would u feel?
Happy Holidays all!
_________________
DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List |
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BobTheDog
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1535
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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The Arm processors in your iPads/iPhones all slow themselves down when they get hot, people in hotter countries get slower iPhones/iPads than people in cold countries.
The intel processors in your laptops do the same thing, they also slow down when battery power gets low, just like your iPhones and iPads. Most the time your laptop processor is throttling itself in order to give better battery life.
Processors also slow themselves down based on load, the 8 core processors in newer non apple phones take this even further, they have 4 slow cores which use a lot less power than the 4 fast cores. Even though they are advertised as having a high clock speed nearly all the time they are running much slower, those fast cores are turned off.
I must admit I don't see it as Apple being evil, everything does this sort of thing nowadays. |
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