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Sudden loss of sound :(

 
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Mark vG



Joined: 17 Sep 2015
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Sudden loss of sound :( Reply with quote

Hi all,

Last Tuesday night I did a show with my band.
During the sound check we played Unchain my Heart - Joe Cocker.
Halfway the piano intro the sound from my "unchain" combi suddenly disappeared. As this never happened before I didn't pay much attention to it. Unfortunately, during the show it happened again! Exactly at the same point in the intro.

Do you have any experience with this issue?

My Kronos didn't freeze completely, switching to another song (setlist mode) and going back to Unchain my Heart got the combi working..

We play the song already for 2 years (with the same Kronos), I didn't change the intro or the combi.

Any thoughts? Help is very welcome, I don't like to experience this (with a full venue) again.

Thank you very much in advance!

Best regards Mark.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1475

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was just one timbre in the Combi affected, or the whole Combi?
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Mark vG



Joined: 17 Sep 2015
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was one timbre as I could hear a very low level piano sound (likely the layered piano). Tomorrow I'll get my gear back home, so I'll try to reproduce the problem. Thank you very much for your quick reply!!
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1475

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the position of the Master volume slider. Vibration and movement of the keyboard during the gig may trigger the Kronos to "think" the slider has been moved, and set the Combi volume based on its position.
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burningbusch
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1054
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vector Joystick is often set to control the volume of certain timbres. Accidently moving it could cause a timbre to go silent. Check it out with that particular program. This can be switched off. And yes, inadvertently moving the Master fader will cause loss of volume.

Busch.
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 654
Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you ever experience some strangeness live, use what I call the "panic" button, to restore things back to normal quickly --

Press the COMPARE button.
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Xenophile
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Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
If you ever experience some strangeness live, use what I call the "panic" button, to restore things back to normal quickly --
Press the COMPARE button.

Thank you!
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mikelees
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 52
Location: Chelmsford, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using a combi that has other sounds with a long release, with priority over the piano?

I had the same issue of the piano cutting out at the same point in the song just before Christmas. I was using a combi I had created that had piano and pads with 2 tubular bells in a velocity split. I didn’t want the tubular bells to get cut off by note stealing, so I set them to priority, however they have a really long release, much longer than the sample, so although the bells weren’t audible, as far as the Kronos was concerned they were still sounding and had priority over the piano, so at the same point in the song, the piano sound would cut out, as all sounding notes were tubular bells.

Took a while to diagnose what was going on - eventually worked it out from the note meters. Fixed by shortening the sustain and release times on the tubular bells program.
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 654
Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenophile wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
If you ever experience some strangeness live, use what I call the "panic" button, to restore things back to normal quickly --
Press the COMPARE button.

Thank you!


No problem! That COMPARE button works the same on many synths.


Last edited by psionic311 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moonglow



Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
The Vector Joystick is often set to control the volume of certain timbres. Accidently moving it could cause a timbre to go silent. Check it out with that particular program. This can be switched off. And yes, inadvertently moving the Master fader will cause loss of volume.

Busch.

+1

Be sure to check out the Vector Joystick. I recall being incredibly stumped when I accidentally flicked it in the middle of a song; it doesn’t take much force to produce a dramatic result. The good news is that once you’ve had this experience (are now aware of it) the issue can be quickly resolved on stage, or even better, as Bush has suggested disable the feature.
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Mark vG



Joined: 17 Sep 2015
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

A massive thank you for your replies! I've spent quite some time last week trying to replicate the loss of sound. The compare button is something I will remember in particular as the PANIC button. Smile Comes in handy, for sure!
Joystick wasn't affecting the piano sound, master fader is always in the full open position. I checked this when I took my Kronos out of the case.

Although sustain pedal down sliding from A0 halfway the keyboard and running multiple iFX's does require some digital brain power, it doesn't cut the sound.

The only plausible explanation I have are the faders 1 to 8. They were all in the down/close position. Piano was on fader one and two. I might have touched the first fader while sliding up. If this really was the cause of the problem I guess the easiest solution is to have them all in the up/open position.

Hope this could be helpful to you as well. I don't have any other causes found...

Thanks again!

See here a link to a live recording of my old Unchain Combi, straight from the mixer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz--ub8sIEc
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 818

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark vG wrote:
Hi all,

A massive thank you for your replies! I've spent quite some time last week trying to replicate the loss of sound. The compare button is something I will remember in particular as the PANIC button. Smile Comes in handy, for sure!
Joystick wasn't affecting the piano sound, master fader is always in the full open position. I checked this when I took my Kronos out of the case.

Although sustain pedal down sliding from A0 halfway the keyboard and running multiple iFX's does require some digital brain power, it doesn't cut the sound.

The only plausible explanation I have are the faders 1 to 8. They were all in the down/close position. Piano was on fader one and two. I might have touched the first fader while sliding up. If this really was the cause of the problem I guess the easiest solution is to have them all in the up/open position.

Hope this could be helpful to you as well. I don't have any other causes found...

Thanks again!

See here a link to a live recording of my old Unchain Combi, straight from the mixer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz--ub8sIEc


What you are saying about sliders 1&2 for your piano, it makes really good sense. Especially if you have your slider response set to “Jump” in Global mode. Kronos has global setting for knob and slider control responses.
“Jump” setting implies that when the system registers the slider at 107 value position but the physical slider is at 0, the slightest nudge of the slider will cause it to jump the active system value to the position you nudged the slider into. So if you accidentally touched it and it moved from 0 to 1 out of 127, your system value of 107 will jump immediately down to 1 which is effectivley sudden loss of sound. A disadvantage for Kronos being able to boot up with the saved value settings even if the corresponding physical sliders are askew of actual setting or dropped to zero during power off.
The other setting aside from “Jump” is “Catch”. Catch means that if you nudge the slider accidentally, it will not register a response until the slider position first catches up with the active value in the system. Set global knob/slider mode to “Catch”.

Go to Global mode “Basics” tab page and look for “system preferences” section. One of the items on the list will be “knob/slider mode”. If it is set to “Jump” then you most likely are right about your timbre-volume-slider-accident theory. Set the knob/slider mode to “Catch” and such accidents will be hard to set into motion again.
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 904
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a pot inadvertently affect a parameter is the result of an intermittent control. Slide pots are especially sensitive to dust etc. due to the open slot. A cleaner can be applied to “repair” this situation. I’ve heard folks suggesting WD40 which is a no no. Even DeOxit D5 which I use on practically everything is not recommended. D5 will wash the lubricant out of the slider.
I recommend DeOxit D100. Two reasons, it’s 100 percent cleaner so no propellant that can wash out the lubricants. Secondly, it only shoots out in a metered burst so much easier to not overuse it. It cost more than D5 and is a smaller can. However, for sliders it’s the best I’ve found. DeOxit makes a fader lube but when I tried it on an ARP2600, it nearly ruined it. Never any issues with D100.

Carry on,
Geo
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