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Need HELP! Trying to record Triton Combi sound on Oasys

 
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DocFingers



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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Location: South Florida, New York

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject: Need HELP! Trying to record Triton Combi sound on Oasys Reply with quote

I posted this previously in the Oasys forum but haven't received any replies and I'm hoping that since the Kronos has much in common with the Oasys, that the solutiion to my question can be found here...

I'm Midi-illiterate and digitally challenged, so PLEASE, if you are knowledgeable and kind enough to answer this question, please do so in a simple step by step manner. Please do not assume I know anything about connecting the 2 keyboards, or doing anything with Midi (please believe me that it's not for lack of trying). Thank you! (MUCH APPRECIATED!) Here goes:

I wrote an instrumental on my Triton keyboard using a particular Triton combi sound that works well for this song.
I would like to play that same Triton sound using my Oasys and then record the song into the Oasys sequencer in stereo onto tracks 1 and 2, and then Add 8 additional tracks to the song into the Oasys sequencer using sounds from the Oasys, and then mix it all down into a wav file.

(Step by step please) HOW DO i GO ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING THIS?
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step by step to final results, would imply someone knows more about what you want.

Before even getting to connecting midi cables, are you saying you have 2 tracks from triton? More than two? Are they midi tracks?
Do you want to replicate the Triton combi in OASYS to play in OASYS while Triton goes out of the picture?
Or do you want to use OASYS to play the actual Triton combi on triton while also playing additional parts on OASYS to be part of an expanded song that was started on Triton combi?

It is not hard to play the triton combi into OASYS and record all the midi data from the performance of the Combi you are playing from Triton. You will have all the midi data in OASYS midi tracks to work with -but the actual sounds from Triton will not be there. You will have to really work a serious task to recreate the sounds of the Triton Combi in OASYS.
*First rule of midi is that midi does everything, carries every signal and message except the actual audio sound.*
But you can easily use the midi data in OASYS to drive the triton combi. Or just record it in triton sequencer and midi sync the triton to OASYS and run both workstation’s sequencers in tandem as one big expanded sequencer and have a whole lot more to work with.

Easier and more advantages to use both workstations together/in tandem, midi linked and synced, leave the combi on triton and add to it musically, from OASYS.
The two can work together as one and you get the processor load distributed over both workstation’S CPU. Having the power of both CPU means you cut down the issues of polyphony limits that can come about fast as you stack up tracks. Also it saves you the arduous task of recreating triton sounds into OASYS. I think the sounds are not directly compatible for file transfer. And even the root sample files may not be a compatble format. Someone else may know about file format converters but not myself.

If you have two 5pin midi cables and are willing to use both workstations together, then there is a good chance you can get the help you need. It is the easiest route i know. I run another sequencers in tandem with kronos via midi cables.

It is one thing that OASYS is mostly similar to Kronos, but you have Triton in the mix and details of triton have to come into play for what you ask on a Kronos forum where many may not be familiar with Triton. Good thing is that Triton has a lot in common with Kronos but kronos has left behind a few Triton traits as well as added a whole lot more. I used to have a triton extreme but that was over 5 years ago.

Get two five pin midi cables if you are willing to use both keyboards as one -and you will have a good chance of getting what you want to happen.

Things to get familair with to start off~~~

1. Where to make Midi channel settings per track.

2. Setting the corresponding midi tracks to internal or external status on OASYS if you want OASYS keys to play Triton sounds.

3. Know where to go for Setting “Global” mode midi settings to decide which Keyboard masters the midi clock for both keyboards. “Auto midi” setting for both boards is best especially since they are both korgs.

4. Know where the setup is for Midi filters because midi is complicted beyond just 16 channels to get tangled up in. You further get tangled in at least 100+ different midi messages that can be coming and going to all kinds of places over any channel. Can be like a haunted house if you cannot get a handle on filtering/stopping unwanted messages.

Midi filters are used to turn on or off the midi messages that can get in the way. Especially program change messages when trying to separately scroll programs/patches in both keyboards. Otherwise if you change programs on OASYS or vice versa, it could change programs on Triton and do it in a way that skips banks for a long leap from the program where you started.

This is not intended to be the step by step you asked for, but just details of what you are getting into and also prodding for more details from you.
After this, i will try to do a step by step but i make no guarantees.
Although i do hope someone else on forum can come and take over or join in.
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DocFingers



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello 19naia and thank you for your Herculean efforts at trying to untangle my confusion.

I use my Oasys exclusively 99 percent of the time. But while messing around on my Triton Extreme, I found a fairly complex combi sound that inspired a new song (let's call it "SONG ONE"). When I went to my Oasys to find the same sound combi, I couldn't find it because it doesn't exist on the Oasys (nothing close enoigh in sound to the Triton combi exists on the Oasys).

So what I'm trying to do in the absolutely simplest way possible, (if a simple way actually exists), is to record that same exact Triton combi sound into the Oasys sequencer as the background tracks of SONG ONE, and then build tracks on top of that by adding sounds that already exist in the Oasys. I realize now that my plan may not be possible without getting very involoved in midi knowledge and jargon, which I'm WAY too analog to pull off. As you said (and I will forever remember):
*First rule of midi is that midi does everything, carries every signal and message except the actual audio sound.*

If there is no practical way to accomplish this, then is there a way to record SONG ONE on the Triton sequencer (using that same fairly complex Triton combi sound), mix it down to stereo audio, and then transfer that stereo audio mix (via ???) to the Audio In of the Oasys sequencer (e.g., as "SONG ONE" using the Oasys SONG ONE's audio tracks 1 and 2 for stereo), and then build the rest of the tracks for SONG ONE using the midi sounds from the Oasys overlayed on top of those SONG ONE sounds that are now recorded as audio in the Oasys?

I TRULY appreciate your efforts --- Thank you!
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voip
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Left and Right audio signals from the Triton could be routed via audio cables to the Oasys audio inputs 1 and 2 and recorded onto two audio tracks in the Oasys' sequencer. The audio input 1 and 2 bus will need to be assigned as the source to the audio tracks e.g. using the Stereo Pair function, and the levels set to avoid overloading the input, but that should be more or less it.

There's more info in the Oasys Operating Guide, in the section on Audio Recording, and in the Parameter Guide sequencer section.

.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DocFingers wrote:
H
I use my Oasys exclusively 99 percent of the time. But while messing around on my Triton Extreme, I found a fairly complex combi sound that inspired a new song (let's call it "SONG ONE"). When I went to my Oasys to find the same sound combi, I couldn't find it because it doesn't exist on the Oasys (nothing close enoigh in sound to the Triton combi exists on the Oasys).

So what I'm trying to do in the absolutely simplest way possible, (if a simple way actually exists), is to record that same exact Triton combi sound into the Oasys sequencer as the background tracks of SONG ONE, and then build tracks on top of that by adding sounds that already exist in the Oasys. I realize now that my plan may not be possible without getting very involoved in midi knowledge and jargon, which I'm WAY too analog to pull off. As you said (and I will forever remember):


I don;t recall- can you create a WAV file in your Triton ? If you can, it would be simple to play that WAV as an audio track in OASYS

If not, voip is on the easiest approach- route Triton audio out to Oasys audio in and record the Combi or Triton Song or whatever it is.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Triton extreme can create a few MegaBytes of wave file but i cannot recall how. But i suspect it is via Sampling mode just like with OASYS/Kronos.

You may get better results just running the left and right output from Triton to the left and right input of OASYS because OASYS may have better sampling rate and overall better quality recording than recording it to Triton wave file and storing to external USB for transfer to OASYS.

If you decide to go with Audio recording of “Song One”. Then you will have the easiest/quickest time getting what you want to happen.

My suggestion is to run output cables from L/R of Triton to Oasys inputs L/R. Then you can go to OASYS sampling mode or sequencer mode to record it.
OASYS Sampling mode lets you trim and do all kinds of edits to the “Song One” sample recording to get it to fit in the grid of beats and measures that you will need for good tempo sync to the rest of your additions from OASYS sequencer.

You will have an easy time going Audio.
How to Sample it in OASYS, how to edit the sample to a fitting and tempo alignment and how to get the finished sample wave file into an audio track. 3 main steps to work out.

I guess you could record directly into the Oasys sequencer audio track for quickest way and you should have the same sampling mode “sample edit” capabilites from sequencer mode’s audio track edit.

Good thing is -there are enough youtube videos covering live demonstration of how to do sampling, wave files to auditracks and sample editing.

If you cannot find the right youtube tutorial videos on your own, reply here and i will see if i can find a few youtube videos that cover this topic and i will paste the links here in another reply.

I really think you should look into midi setup for both triton and OASYS -some day with some other project. Good knowledge to have and it opens a whole world of possibilities and increases total setup power when you have two Korgs working as one. You already have two potent korg workstations, all that waits is two midi cables and digging into the wonderful world of midi.
I run iPad, Boss drum machine and Kronos all together over midi. And the iPad has several apps going at once with midi routing for each app as well as an app called midi flow to help the apps work together and with Kronos over USB midi.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Need HELP! Trying to record Triton Combi sound on Oasys Reply with quote

DocFingers wrote:
I posted this previously in the Oasys forum but haven't received any replies


I don't know if you've seen it, but my reply is there.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=113116
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tomto66
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cloud also consider sampling your specific Triton sound and turning it into a program for your Oasys.
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DocFingers



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Heartfelt Gratitude to All Reply with quote

So very grateful for all of your help and every one of your ideas. I'm going to try my best to learn all of them and then choose the one that works the best for this particular situation. It amazes me how many different solutions there could be for an issue that I thought might have NO solution at all!

MUCH THANKS and HAPPY NEW YEAR to a wonderful group of very generous and very knowledgeable folks!

PS I've been a piano tuner-technician-rebuilder (in addition to some gigging) most of my life, and would be happy to pay my knowledge forward to any of you that have (acoustic) piano related technical questions. It would be my pleasure to help you for a change. Thanks again!
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, Doc. This video should help you understand what you need to do. I'm posting it here because my Kronos is standing in for your Triton. Laughing

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