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Kronos the last workstation or not
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leonh
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Kronos the last workstation or not Reply with quote

Being on the top and not being challenged means either you are too good for competition or priorities have changed while we all agree that Kronos is number one question is why Yamaha for example made Montage a performance keyboard but not a workstation by opting for combination with DAW is that a future then when it does not make sense to make an expensive workstation but rather cheaper performance oriented keyboard so a new Workstation from Korg is maybe not so certain.Hope I am wrong.
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess would be probably last workstation?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: Kronos the last workstation or not Reply with quote

leonh wrote:
Being on the top and not being challenged means either you are too good for competition or priorities have changed while we all agree that Kronos is number one question is why Yamaha for example made Montage a performance keyboard but not a workstation by opting for combination with DAW is that a future then when it does not make sense to make an expensive workstation but rather cheaper performance oriented keyboard so a new Workstation from Korg is maybe not so certain.Hope I am wrong.



these cos

1) do not want to spend the money, or take the risk
2) have other priorities
3) are not run by w/s enthusiasts
4) know that they can never keep pace with innovative software

Forget about Yamaha. IMO
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19naia
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be my last workstation. I will have to see how much satisfaction i get out of using DAW+plugins as they evolve.
If kronos stops working for me or fails beyond repair, and there is no latest model to move to, i will switch to simpler controller boards and stick to DAW and plugins.
It still is nice having Kronos capabilities along side a DAW setup.

We will have to see. The way computer power is going, we just may see a new era of workstations that can load up third party software like DAW and plugin options. Or offer their own interchangeable selection of proprietary plugins. Like synth engines that you can load and unload at will for a tailor made mix of synth engines on board. Including third party synth engines.
What was Korg doing with Waldorf at NAMM this year? Shmoozing with a new brand/image enhancing synth engine company? Korg is really into the synth engine theme.
When they start talking how hand held cell phones have computing power up there with laptops, you know a major cross roads is here. Just look at the latest iOS device chips.

It very well could end up being a world of workstations that work just like DAW+plugins. And then i would be stuck in the world of always moving to the next workstation rather than my last.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:


1) It still is nice having Kronos capabilities along side a DAW setup.


2) What was Korg doing with Waldorf at NAMM this year? Shmoozing with a new brand/image enhancing synth engine company? Korg is really into the synth engine theme.


1) this is my approach for 2018. Combine the platforms
for recording

2) I guess you are referring to Korg USA. They are not a parent co. They are distributor for Korg Japan.
Korg USA distributes many non Korg products. Amps and so on.

Being the US rep/disti for Waldorf is a business/commission or fee thing.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
19naia wrote:


1) It still is nice having Kronos capabilities along side a DAW setup.


2) What was Korg doing with Waldorf at NAMM this year? Shmoozing with a new brand/image enhancing synth engine company? Korg is really into the synth engine theme.


1) this is my approach for 2018. Combine the platforms
for recording

2) I guess you are referring to Korg USA. They are not a parent co. They are distributor for Korg Japan.
Korg USA distributes many non Korg products. Amps and so on.

Being the US rep/disti for Waldorf is a business/commission or fee thing.


Just the kind of situation for lots of outside influences that can one day end up being part of korg.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Kronos the last workstation or not Reply with quote

leonh wrote:
Being on the top and not being challenged means either you are too good for competition or priorities have changed while we all agree that Kronos is number one question is why Yamaha for example made Montage a performance keyboard but not a workstation by opting for combination with DAW is that a future then when it does not make sense to make an expensive workstation but rather cheaper performance oriented keyboard so a new Workstation from Korg is maybe not so certain.Hope I am wrong.


My guess is based on two facts
1) Yamaha own Steinberg, so a Workstation is competition for its DAW
2) (a question I do not know the answer to) how many people in the user pool actually use Workstation facilities? I don't, other than I have occasionally used the Kronos sequencer for backing track playback (last time four years ago), but those backing tracks were created on a DAW.

I was attracted to the Kronos because of its multiple sound engines, not because it was a Workstation. I was attracted to the Montage because I wanted a good 76 note synth that could also be a controller. The fact that both either did or did not have Workstation capabilities made no difference to me.

Just my perspective of course. Smile
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tomto66
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly hope it's not the last workstation - I have no desire lunging a laptop, tons of cables etc onto a stage - I really like the Kronos as a one-piece workhorse! AFAI'm concerned I hope to do a couple more years with my KX-88 - if and when it's time for a replacement I may get a K2 - I have 100s of combis that I do not look forward to migrating to a new platform. Ideally I would like to see a Kronos3 that is backward compatible with K2... Ah well, we can dream of course ...
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 cents... there will be more workstations.

However, for whatever reason unknown to us and only known to KORG, it's been far longer than usual for the KRONOS series to be a flagship model. That could mean KORG are planning for a major leap for the next workstation and need time, or they are simply directing their efforts elsewhere to other products as the KRONOS really has no competition.

Either way this extended “time” between releases does not take into consideration the customers. KORG may have their own agenda, but so do all the potential customers.

Personally speaking, I'm a diehard fan of KORG workstations since the M1 days and even I've moved towards the likes of Komplete 11 Ultimate and their Keyboard Controller in order to feed in new sounds content and major advancements in features into my workflow.

Whatever the next flagship Workstaion is from KORG, I will probably buy it, but to be honest, I don't see any workstation being my main keyboard any more. It will probably be an addition to my DAW setup, and not my main “go to” instrument as it has always been in the past.

For me future workstations maybe more of a “nice to have” than a “need to have”. So that will effect me deciding when and if I will buy.

Right now I'm more focused on buying an i7 NUC and a touch screen as a platform for the long future ahead.

Regards
Sharp.
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, the appeal of the workstation is it’s portability in one package. I haven’t used a workstation as my sole production instrument in 20 years. Given the relative low cost of computer based DAWS, the only way the workstation platform makes sense as a do-it-all instrument is in an entry level machine such as the Kross and the Krome. Once you get into the premium price area of the Kronos, there are more financially attractive PC based option that offer much more flexibility.

Where the Kronos really shines from my perspective is as a live performance machine. I love the ability to create my projects in my DAW and transfer them to my K for the road. The simplicity of setting up one keyboard for a gig and having all the controls right there is extremely appealing. I gigged for a while with a laptop on stage. Never liked the look and there were those in my audiences who assumed that it was there for some sort of hi tech trickery that actually detracted from my performance.

My original once sentence review of the Kronos in 2011 was, "Came for the piano, stayed for the workstation." I was shopping for a stage piano at the time. Compared to the Yamahas, Rolands and Nords at the time, the Kronos pianos had the best sound and playability for me.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharp wrote:
My 2 cents... there will be more workstations.


Either way this extended “time” between releases does not take into consideration the customers. KORG may have their own agenda, but so do all the potential customers.


Regards
Sharp.


As a long time and loyal Korg keyboard owner, the above is my main gripe about Korg.

If we were talking a $300 IOS device, i would not be as demanding.

A w/s is a major purchase, with a long life. Its a serious purchase as $3000 is practically an investment . ( I am aware many musicians flip their purchases every year, but thats not the context).

Since Korg will not disclose or hint at future plans, we are forced into reading tea leaves about this w/s topic.

I believe Korg could be carefully forthcoming
about this without upsetting their retail/distributor channel.

Since this is unlikely, my spending for the year goes elsewhere. And my time invested follows that.
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess an onboard sequencer is what really separates a workstation from other high end keyboards, right?

For me in 2018, the sequencer was still a great selling point. I doubt I will use it for the purpose of final song production. Compared to my current setup, which is Studio One Pro on a nice large monitor with an external HUI controller, the K's sequencer feels a bit arcane.

I will still get a lot of use out of the sequencer though. As an immediate scratchpad that doesn't disrupt the creative flow. As extra fingers. As a sound design tool. For the K's internal engines as well as my external modular synth.

I evaluated the Montage too. I would not exactly call it cheaper. Smile The Montage has some forward thinking features, but for me Yamaha missed the mark somehow. It didn't really appeal to me.

I bought the K in 2018 already having a pretty rich computer based setup (DAW, NI Komplete, some nice MIDI controllers) and a modular for more expereimental explorations. For me, the appeal of the Kronos is that the sum of all its parts come together to feel like a cohesive instrument that's fun and inspiring to play and create with.

I'm not sure what they could realistically add to it at this point without sending the price tag into the stratosphere? There's not too much it can't do. I don't think anyone will ever reach the bottom of its sound design potential.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
I g

I evaluated the Montage too. I would not exactly call it cheaper. Smile The Montage has some forward thinking features, but for me Yamaha missed the mark somehow. It didn't really appeal to me.

Il.


Without a doubt Montage is over priced for what it offers. Its about half right.
Maybe a touch more. IMO. Yamaha has finally figured out Montage can read Motif files with their last upgrade.

its completely off the table for me.
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be sad if we have seen the last of the workstations with the KRONOS.
It certainly re-defined what people can expect from a workstation in this price segment.

Perhaps KORG will take most of the engines of the KRONOS and re-introduce them in a midrange workstation, the successor of the KROME, thus doing to the midrange what they previously did with the more expensive higher end range.

On the other hand, KORG has a very durable reputation as THE producer of workstations, the KRONOS sold really well, and it would not make sense to give this up.
The OASYS concept can be improved and enhanced in many ways, and with computer technology progressing constantly new avenues are opened up for this particular platform.
Somehow I don't think KORG will let this pass them by without seizing the opportunity.

And regarding the Montage, in spite of the downsides I've actually grown very fond of the sounds I hear coming out of it and the deep programming features, although it's a pity Yamaha does not use full size keys in the 61/76 versions, and the 88 key version is reportedly sluggish besides being heavy.
If Yamaha were to release the Montage in a KORG M3M style version it would be hard for me to resist it.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
It

On the other hand, KORG has a very durable reputation as THE producer of workstations, the KRONOS sold really well, and it would not make sense to give this up.

Somehow I don't think KORG will let this pass them by without seizing the opportunity.

ait.


I agree. Even while a few posters report some problems with their K, overall, the past 7 years, Kronos is a reliable keyboard. Basic preventative steps should be followed for power (UPS) and a good case for transport. The K2 is a good seller, even with its high price.

We don't know what Korg will do or plan. We don't know if they believe a new robust W/s model is a priority. Making a new complex board is about Sales/profit and market capture.

If they assess good sales/profit, a window of opportunity so to speak, yes, they can or will make it happen. I don't believe sentiment has much to do with that.
Past history is not a indicator of future results.

They throughly understand their market place. Even as it evolves every year.
What I like about Korg is that they take some chances with products.
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