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Kronos the last workstation or not
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kronoSphere
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello GregC : I think you, me and some others people here and there are now, just the kind of consumers with whom Korg is no longer interested. Most people today have even change their personal computer for a tablet or even they juste use now their phones. People just rarely used their PC for others things than just reading their mail, loading some photos or writing little texts.
In the past years the "Workstations" were a dream for customers in the music shops. I remember myself and all those guys discovering the Yamaha SY77 : Even the prestigious IRCAM in Paris was interested with this workstations (one of the programmer for the SY77 worked with the IRCAM)
Now, today, go into a music shop : people are more intersested with the arranger : the pushed-button thing. Why spend 4000$ or so just to tend to produce a sound at home ???? Musicians who are PRO have the material they want to in the studios where they records. The other ones, those like me who have quit these kind os special rooms since some times, are just a kind of rare guys who continue to love writing and recording songs at home with girls who like that too ! : Rare and precious ! Very Happy
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
Hello GregC : I think you, me and some others people here and there are now, just the kind of consumers with whom Korg is no longer interested. Most people today have even change their personal computer for a tablet or even they juste use now their phones. People just rarely used their PC for others things than just reading their mail, loading some photos or writing little texts.
In the past years the "Workstations" were a dream for customers in the music shops. I remember myself and all those guys discovering the Yamaha SY77 : Even the prestigious IRCAM in Paris was interested with this workstations (one of the programmer for the SY77 worked with the IRCAM)
Now, today, go into a music shop : people are more intersested with the arranger : the pushed-button thing. Why spend 4000$ or so just to tend to produce a sound at home ???? Musicians who are PRO have the material they want to in the studios where they records. The other ones, those like me who have quit these kind os special rooms since some times, are just a kind of rare guys who continue to love writing and recording songs at home with girls who like that too ! : Rare and precious ! Very Happy


I agree with you. FYI, my wife and I love your country.

Here in CA and actually all over the states, the retail landscape has changed
greatly over the past 10-15 yrs. How families view music and use of music
in their household has also transformed. Especially compared to the 80's/90's when I raised a daughter.

Cos like Korg and Roland are very much in tune in for that casual audience.
There is a mostly total preoccupation with ' follow the money '.
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chris
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 cents as well. Not sure it will be the last workstation.

I think that the market will open to new types of workstations, say hybrid workstations combining analog VCO and digital oscillators as well as better DAW integration.

We all see that analog poly/mono-synths are now becoming more and more frequent.
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runningman67
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see the Korg Workstation evolving again. They are the kings of the Workstation.
The average age of the Workstation customer is probably getting older. I'm 50. I think I have another 2 Workstations in me before I'm all done.
I can't see Korg giving up on us yet. It's still one of the most popular synths on this Forum, just look at the figures.

A lot of the new stuff is very good but requires a DAW and have flashing lights to appeal to the younger crowd and DJ crowd.
Ipad synths are actually brilliant and very appealing to the younger crowd. I have a few but you can't beat quality hardware.

Certain synths are are ever present with Quality Bands, Kronos, Nord etc.

I think a new Workstation will come, eventually.
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mikeyd
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said runningman. There will always be a niche for hardware. Everything eventually will be new again as well. I have no problem calling my KRONOS vintage. It’s heavy, large, and reliable kinda like me. 😂
To me there is nothing like driving an 88 behind some great musicians with a full dance floor or attentive audience.

KORG knows what they are doing. They always have.
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PCFREE
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kurzweil Forte has evolved into a formidable workstation. The latest OS features a 16 track sequencer and it has almost 3.5gb flash memory for sample import. Kurzweil is still a big player in the workstation market.

Yes, it's complicated in terms of synthesis but it is incredibly deep with great third party libraries from the likes of Barb & Co, that just use the internal synth engine.
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Lightbringer
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Joined: 07 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you all think Kronos development is finished? Or might we see another OS major revision? Seems like adding another synth engine or other new features in an OS update might be a good way to sell some new EXs.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
Do you all think Kronos development is finished? Or might we see another OS major revision? Seems like adding another synth engine or other new features in an OS update might be a good way to sell some new EXs.


I am 90% sure Kronos is at the end of the line. No further features will be added. I don't believe the current components can remain stable with the load of another engine. It's a trade off.

The K is still a remarkable board. It's a song writers best friend. I don't recall reading that korg promised new features for ever. 6 years of updates is excellent support IMO (thru 2O17). Plus sales appear to be strong.

I think this is realistic.
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kronoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I'm more optimistic ! : I think there will be a new Korg Workstation. A kind of Kronos with more of all that makes so great the Kronos. And I hope his name will be Helios Very Happy
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timg11
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the majority of the functionality of a Kronos is in the software running on the motherboard, one relatively straightforward way to create a "next generation" is to replace the relatively underpowered (even for its time) motherboard, with a high performance, late model Mini-ITX motherboard. These are available supporting the 8th generation Intel Core Processors, and DDR4 memory. Simply updating the motherboard to top-tier performance could enable a Kronos 3 with minimal re-tooling, and offer an upgrade path for existing owners of K1 and K2.

What would (should?) be different? All 64 bit code, eliminating today's 4G RAM limits - ship with 32G and customer can upgrade from there. Obviously the higher CPU performance translates to more polyphony and less voice stealing. Also, redesign the synth engine to load VSTs and other soft-synths directly (IFX plug-ins too). Re-structure internal storage to remove limits on Program and Combi slots. Split the internal software into two virtual machines. One keeps the Korg-proprietary sound generating functions. The other virtual machine is truly open source Linux-based, controlling the User Interface, MIDI implementation, and program storage. Open all these, and let the 3rd parties help make the Kronos 3 the unbeatable platform for the future.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timg11 wrote:
Since the majority of the functionality of a Kronos is in the software running on the motherboard, one relatively straightforward way to create a "next generation" is to replace the relatively underpowered (even for its time) motherboard, with a high performance, late model Mini-ITX motherboard. These are available supporting the 8th generation Intel Core Processors, and DDR4 memory. Simply updating the motherboard to top-tier performance could enable a Kronos 3 with minimal re-tooling, and offer an upgrade path for existing owners of K1 and K2.

What would (should?) be different? All 64 bit code, eliminating today's 4G RAM limits - ship with 32G and customer can upgrade from there. Obviously the higher CPU performance translates to more polyphony and less voice stealing. Also, redesign the synth engine to load VSTs and other soft-synths directly (IFX plug-ins too). Re-structure internal storage to remove limits on Program and Combi slots. Split the internal software into two virtual machines. One keeps the Korg-proprietary sound generating functions. The other virtual machine is truly open source Linux-based, controlling the User Interface, MIDI implementation, and program storage. Open all these, and let the 3rd parties help make the Kronos 3 the unbeatable platform for the future.


underpowered ? totally agree there.

Straight forward and simple to upgrade, etc, etc ??

How come it has not been done ? By anyone ? See lots of talk like this but nothing to show.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I'd pipe up and put my 2 cents in here for what it's worth. My Kronos 73 is now 6 1/2 years old and I still have a truckload to learn about just what it can and cannot do. So far; knock on wood; she's been totally reliable.
I really can't see an update that will bring in another sound engine or 2 happening. It would be nice but AFAIK it's probably very unlikely. I think the hardware just can't handle it.
On the upside though, I do think that KOrg will come up with a new workstation. I have absolutely no idea about what it might be and I'm not even going to bother to guess. The thing is though, the Kronos is pretty much impossible to beat. No other company has even come close or even really tried. When you think about it, which company has the most sound engines? I think it's Korg. They've even manged to scoop the DX-7 style engine with Mod-7.
I will admit that I don't use the sequencer much anymore ever since I bought a computer and loaded Cubase into it. But for the longest time my K was my primary writing tool. It still is but now I do the recording part on my computer.
I still love creating sounds on my Kronos. mostly now though I just build combis but now and then I'll get into the nitty gritty of it and creat a brand new sound using one of the engines. I really do like to work with the Polysix.

Ever since I bought some organ sounds I've been tweaking these and getting great results.

I guess what I'm saying is the Kronos is by far the best work station/synth out there by a long shot and it will be very hard to beat.
And I think this will be true for quite a while.
Ponder on this thought for a moment. Can you honestly say that you have explored everything and every aspect the Kronos is capable of?

Jermykeys the ever searching!
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exsequor699
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
Ponder on this thought for a moment. Can you honestly say that you have explored everything and every aspect the Kronos is capable of?

Jermykeys the ever searching!

This is exactly what I am talking about. A small bunch of people almost demanding and complaining about a Kronos successor and I wonder if they master at least a 30% of the Kronos. I mean wishlist ok, but one has to be fair with statements. There will be a Kronos successor, in its time. Meanwhile waiting we should be learning and taking the most out of the incredible capable instrument we have now. Less complains.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
I thought I'd pipe up and put my 2 cents in here for what it's worth. My Kronos 73 is now 6 1/2 years old and I still have a truckload to learn about just what it can and cannot do. So far; knock on wood; she's been totally reliable.
s Korg. They've even manged to scoop the DX-7 style engine with Mod-7.
I will admit that I don't use the sequencer much anymore ever since I bought a computer and loaded Cubase into it. But for the longest time my K was my primary writing tool. It still is but now I do the recording part on my computer.
I still love creating sounds on my Kronos.

Ever since I bought some organ sounds I've been tweaking these and getting great results.

Can you honestly say that you have explored everything and every aspect the Kronos is capable of?

!


for some reason, there is this theory that one needs to explore everything in the Kronos.

There is more than 1 answer here. Both are equally true.

While I would never discourage anyone to explore a device/keyboard to their hearts content , there are other areas to continue to develop and explore, for example, that is ones creative output. That can be an endless river.

For example, deep programming with Mod7/Al1 is not a strength. Nor do I have the time to do so. I will purchase those sounds from anyone highly talented in that development. Same with high quality samples. I am not going to sample
a cello or a viola or a string section. I will buy that talent.

My time is dedicated to Song creation, original material. Some challenging
cover material.

Whats great about Kronos is that it is an excellent song writing partner. Thats
my opinion. It continues to give and support my muse. Within limits, however.

Kronos is limited with 16 midi tracks and polyphony. I have said this about 100 times. Others have said the same long ago. Which ties in to the the statement
its underpowered, In this context, its a fact that it is, and a more robust current processor will begin to solve that issue.

If a K owner only uses 1 engine, like CX-3 or Ep-1, etc, at a time, sure, polyphony is not tested. Or lays down 4 tracks. Thats not going to red line the Kronos.

So context and what an owners requirements are, will vary. They are equally valid.

I always read that folks are certain there will be a next w/s. I don't have the ability to predict that future or what it will look like. I do not assume, either.

If you look at NAMM 2018, a w/s was not Korgs priority. You saw the new products they were promoting. Draw a picture from that.

There was a Kronos on the floor, I was told. It was not plugged in.

Until it happens, and its been some years of wish lists, I am not much for holding my breath. There are other options for my requirements . Many of them quite impressive and available now.
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Davd C. Polich
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used the Kronos sequencer (or the Motif sequencer, or any sequencer on any workstation). I've only ever bought synths for their sounds.
Sequencing/recording I do in a DAW.

So for me I couldn't care less if there was ever another workstation from any manufacturer. Just give me cool sound engines to work with.

I haven't really scratched the surface of programming on the KronosX 61
that I own. I'll be happy with it for years to come. I doubt I'll buy another
workstation in my lifetime. As long as my Kronos works I'll use it.
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