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Montage 2.0 & Midi
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D575
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Montage 2.0 & Midi Reply with quote

Montage 2.0 still did not address the current Midi situation that many have called for.... having a 3rd Midi Mode (Midi+) for setting Midi Channels for the Parts, this could/would complement the current other two Midi Modes (Single and Mulit) this is still very much needed by many, Unfortunately what we still have here with Montage 2.0 is a garden wall built around the current Midi restrictive design when trying to use Montage and Midi in the traditional sense with other keyboards, Yamaha seems fixed in this debate when trying to understand the argument, if this new 3rd option could be introduced and even if this restrict the ethos of montage in some way it would still allow some flexibly in certain situations in a traditional sense with a complex midi keyboard rig having a 3rd Midi Mode (Midi+) which has been missing from Montage as part of the stardard we have always known which many have called for..this includes a famous name in a recent interview while talking about his on-stage keyboard rig when complimenting the Montage, Don't get me wrong Montage is still a fantastic keyboard but there is room for further improvement, Let's hope the engineers at Yamaha consider this, So to conclude...this would be a 3rd options not a fixed position to compliment the other two Midi Modes for Montage.
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D575
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note: If you are a Montage owner or thinking of owning one in the future and this subject is of interest to you, then you can follow this on the yamaha synth forum here https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/midi-2
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Korg PA4X-76 : Roland Jupiter-80 : Yamaha Montage-7 : Roland Integra-7 : Waldorf String Synth : Drawmer 1973 Multi-Band Compressor : Kush Audio Clariphonic EQ : Munro Sonic Egg-150 Monitors Mk2 : Focusrite Dual ISA Preamp : SPL Tube Vitalizer : Tascam DA-3000 : Lexicon Processor : Allen & Heath Zed-420 : TC Clarity-M : RME Babyface Pro : Sonarworks Ref-4-(room calibration) : Behringer X-Touch ONE : Advanced Balanced Mains Power Supply : (((((A@424.4hz)))))
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As if Yamaha ever listened before...

If Phill doesn’t think you need it, it will never come.
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D575
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
As if Yamaha ever listened before...

If Phill doesn’t think you need it, it will never come.
i think they must of listened somewhere considering some of the backward compatibility and other smaller enhancement seen in the recent 2.0 update and if sales are not strong then they don't have the luxury not to listen... so I will continue to take a positive approach to elicit a better outcome for all concerned regarding this matter......
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Korg PA4X-76 : Roland Jupiter-80 : Yamaha Montage-7 : Roland Integra-7 : Waldorf String Synth : Drawmer 1973 Multi-Band Compressor : Kush Audio Clariphonic EQ : Munro Sonic Egg-150 Monitors Mk2 : Focusrite Dual ISA Preamp : SPL Tube Vitalizer : Tascam DA-3000 : Lexicon Processor : Allen & Heath Zed-420 : TC Clarity-M : RME Babyface Pro : Sonarworks Ref-4-(room calibration) : Behringer X-Touch ONE : Advanced Balanced Mains Power Supply : (((((A@424.4hz)))))
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laurance
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At YAMAHA Forums, If BAD M. want (can) reply, you'll take a fast clean reply from him, even a child can understand about what he is talking.

BUT: If he won't, even SHAKESPEARE will not understand what he's talking about
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D575
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All true....lets hope some new consideration will be given in the next development meetings in Montage HQ and emotions don't spoil this still needed constructive debate to reason a better outcome over in the other place (Yamaha Synth forum)..........
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. I find constructive requests on Yamaha Synth get quickly shut down along the lines of "you do not understand how the Montage works, and you must bend to suit".

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the Montage. It is very powerful (complements the Kronos nicely), but there are things it could do better.

My gripe is you cannot select a set list via MIDI in the same way you can with the Kronos. I raised this, and you can guess the response : "You are thinking about the Montage the wrong way.....".

And after three years of the Kronos UI which is pretty logical and I can find my way about it (only need to refer to the manuals once or twice a year) the Montage UI is an exercise in obfuscation. I mean, to get to some parameters you have to click in the performance name field, as if you are editing the name to get a menu where you can see the Performance Info!!!. After three years of a synth with SSD with sample sample streaming and ability to use FTP to transfer data, going back to a limited RAM and slow USB thumb drives does not quite feel 21st century. On the plus side it is a great performance synth and gives me the Yamaha sound in a modern guise.

I am a long time Yamaha fan, but have always been convinced that Yamaha has a "stupid quirks" dept that must put its mark on all synths before they are finished. Wink

I think Yamaha could learn from the Kronos and how much more logical it is.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious Derek - do you own a Montage? I don't. Endless internal debate on whether to buy one but can't commit. Curious if you took the plunge?
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
Yup. I find constructive requests on Yamaha Synth get quickly shut down along the lines of "you do not understand how the Montage works, and you must bend to suit".

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the Montage. It is very powerful (complements the Kronos nicely), but there are things it could do better.

My gripe is you cannot select a set list via MIDI in the same way you can with the Kronos. I raised this, and you can guess the response : "You are thinking about the Montage the wrong way.....".

And after three years of the Kronos UI which is pretty logical and I can find my way about it (only need to refer to the manuals once or twice a year) the Montage UI is an exercise in obfuscation. I mean, to get to some parameters you have to click in the performance name field, as if you are editing the name to get a menu where you can see the Performance Info!!!. After three years of a synth with SSD with sample sample streaming and ability to use FTP to transfer data, going back to a limited RAM and slow USB thumb drives does not quite feel 21st century. On the plus side it is a great performance synth and gives me the Yamaha sound in a modern guise.

I am a long time Yamaha fan, but have always been convinced that Yamaha has a "stupid quirks" dept that must put its mark on all synths before they are finished. Wink

I think Yamaha could learn from the Kronos and how much more logical it is.


this is how i experience it to..

But then, atleast on the yamaha synth site they are directly communicating (alotugh mostly one way) with the customers and potential customers on a daily basis.

And thats something Yamaha's arranger department, or any of the 2 other major synth companies could take note from.

Now if they would only be able to change their attitude and start listening to what the customer base really needs in stead of just telling them how to use the Montage, then Yamaha would have an incredible strong customer service..

Because on the other side, if you ask a question, how can i do this, or that, Bad Mister most of the time answers quite fast...
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
Derek Cook wrote:
Yup. I find constructive requests on Yamaha Synth get quickly shut down along the lines of "you do not understand how the Montage works, and you must bend to suit".

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the Montage. It is very powerful (complements the Kronos nicely), but there are things it could do better.

My gripe is you cannot select a set list via MIDI in the same way you can with the Kronos. I raised this, and you can guess the response : "You are thinking about the Montage the wrong way.....".

And after three years of the Kronos UI which is pretty logical and I can find my way about it (only need to refer to the manuals once or twice a year) the Montage UI is an exercise in obfuscation. I mean, to get to some parameters you have to click in the performance name field, as if you are editing the name to get a menu where you can see the Performance Info!!!. After three years of a synth with SSD with sample sample streaming and ability to use FTP to transfer data, going back to a limited RAM and slow USB thumb drives does not quite feel 21st century. On the plus side it is a great performance synth and gives me the Yamaha sound in a modern guise.

I am a long time Yamaha fan, but have always been convinced that Yamaha has a "stupid quirks" dept that must put its mark on all synths before they are finished. Wink

I think Yamaha could learn from the Kronos and how much more logical it is.


this is how i experience it to..

But then, atleast on the yamaha synth site they are directly communicating (alotugh mostly one way) with the customers and potential customers on a daily basis.

And thats something Yamaha's arranger department, or any of the 2 other major synth companies could take note from.

Now if they would only be able to change their attitude and start listening to what the customer base really needs in stead of just telling them how to use the Montage, then Yamaha would have an incredible strong customer service..

Because on the other side, if you ask a question, how can i do this, or that, Bad Mister most of the time answers quite fast...


Hi. Yes on the plus side, Bad Mister or others do answer pretty fast to queries. On the negative side when you have some logical constructive criticism that would lead to a feature improvement, the answer is usually “you do not understand the Kronos”. When I mentioned the fact that you could not select a set list from MIDI as you can on the Kronos (On the Montage you can only select the banks inside a manually selected set list) I found the response so patronising that it was beyond belief.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Curious Derek - do you own a Montage? I don't. Endless internal debate on whether to buy one but can't commit. Curious if you took the plunge?


Hi, Kevin

Yes I did. I needed to retire my EX5 from gigging (two actually, one as a backup - now replaced with an EX5R in the studio). I wanted a 76 note board, really like the Yamaha semi weighted feel, and could not find a decent controller in 76 notes - my one option was to go for a controller and Kronos only in terms of boards as I now have a stage computer capable of running heavy weight VSTis like UH-E DIVA and Omnipshere. But try finding a 76 note controller. Most companies do 49, 61 or 88 hammer action (too heavy for me as I am not a pianist). So I decided a Yamaha 76 note performance synth would give me the keybed I wanted, loads of control options and a synth to boot.

Whilst, when the Montage was announced, I was disappointed that Yamaha did not go further with the Montage in terms of other sound engines, I put that to one side and demoed one last July, and within an hour made the purchasing decision.

The AWM2 (not sure why they do not call it AWM-X) sounds great and producing very analog sounds like the SY range did (and I can use all of my VSTis on stage anyway) and FM-X sounds equally great. The performance features are good (still exploring them), but it is easy to lose yourself for hours just going through the performances where the arpeggios give you some pretty full backing.

As I said above, the only downsides so far are the slightly tortuous UI in places, only having samples in FLASH and a (slow) USB option to load/save is a bit Stone Age compared to the Kronos.

But the two do complement each other quite nicely. As much as I love the Kronos there is something about the Yamaha sound that is quite different and it is good to have both options, backed up by a Rack that has a VSTi host in it - and my trusty Nord G2 Engine. If I cannot make a good sound out of that lot then I am doomed! Smile
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting Derek! I'll likely go for one at some juncture - and agree - I too really like Yamaha's semi-weighted action and 76 note format.

Good to hear it's serving you well.

Cheers!
Kevin.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries.

As an example of Montage, Kronos and Diva in action together, try this demo of mine.

https://www.reverbnation.com/echoesmusicuk/song/29114407-sunrise-on-nephenee

Arpeggio/pad base is Montage. Vangelis Brass is Diva and you can hear a Kronos Karma pad coming in when it builds up. Oh, there is a little AN1x in there as well and a Roland Cloud System 8.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a lovely piece Derek. Congratulations. Very nice 'feeling' to it. It could grow on you for sure.

And indeed a 'complete' sound - very nice setup indeed.

...some of the other pieces on your site are very interesting too - will they remain up for a while (would like to come back and listen to them properly Smile ).


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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
That's a lovely piece Derek. Congratulations. Very nice 'feeling' to it. It could grow on you for sure.

And indeed a 'complete' sound - very nice setup indeed.

...some of the other pieces on your site are very interesting too - will they remain up for a while (would like to come back and listen to them properly Smile ).


Kevin.


Hi, Kevin.

Thanks for the kind comments. Yes those songs have been there for quite a while and not going anywhere soon. Some of them go way back to a writing period in 2006/2007 and I keep meaning to do something more with them, but you know how time flies!

Hopefully today (weather is awful here in Wales) I will be cooking up another Montage/Kronos combi (along with a host of VStis)
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