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Kronos vs Polysix Comparison
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Synthee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Kronos vs Polysix Comparison Reply with quote

Now when I got a Korg Polysix again, 37 years later, I was curios how well Kronos Polysix sounded comparing to the original, so I made a little comparison video.
And I think Korg has done a really good job with the software.
Have a listen and let me know what you think.



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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good idea, thank you.
Very difficult to say :
from 0:00 to 0:40 I don't hear any difference. From 0:40 perhaps the fisrt one is the Polysix and the second one the Kronos, but absolutely not sure. It sounds very slightly wider, perhaps ....
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leonh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

99% similar only difference I can hear is how sounds end that high pitched sound but no idea which instrument.
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to say that the triads with a slight pitch drift in one of their components are from the real thing, but they incorporated this analog VCO idiosyncrasy so carefully in the Kronos Polysix engine that it is indistinguishable from the actual synth.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this, very interesting! I listened a few times, thru Sennheiser earbuds that are firmly seated for good isolation and bass response.

1) chord blocks
-- first synth is brighter, more lively, pitch more pleasantly varying, a bit nasally though
-- second synth is more subdued or softer, more uniform

2) arpeggios
-- first synth is brighter all the way thru each note, including in the release tails, still nasal
-- again, more uniform and "grayer" in the second synth

3) swell
-- first synth has a pleasant bloom, resonant and musical, colorful
-- second one has an unpleasant pitch cluster here, pitches beating against each other, grayish

4) fully resonant filter sweep
-- strong subsonic and low end presence, pleasant distortion as freq swept goes higher
-- missing low end, but has a pleasant double peak not present in first synth sweep example
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
Thanks for this, very interesting! I listened a few times, thru Sennheiser earbuds that are firmly seated for good isolation and bass response.

1) chord blocks
-- first synth is brighter, more lively, pitch more pleasantly varying, a bit nasally though
-- second synth is more subdued or softer, more uniform

2) arpeggios
-- first synth is brighter all the way thru each note, including in the release tails, still nasal
-- again, more uniform and "grayer" in the second synth

3) swell
-- first synth has a pleasant bloom, resonant and musical, colorful
-- second one has an unpleasant pitch cluster here, pitches beating against each other, grayish

4) fully resonant filter sweep
-- strong subsonic and low end presence, pleasant distortion as freq swept goes higher
-- missing low end, but has a pleasant double peak not present in first synth sweep example


Very precise work. But what is your conclusion ? Which one is the Kronos and wich one the Polysix ?
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Darryll



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthee, 'great' video comparison. This is just another proof of the power and flexibility of the Kronos. AWESOME board!!! I listened to the video several times with two different professional grade headphones; eyes closed at different volumes. I could 'not' tell which board was which. The first three comparisons would be 100% guessing on my part as to which is which. The last comparison (the filter sweep)? I'm only 50% optimistic about this 'guess'. I think the first is the Kronos. The second sweep seems to be 'just slightly' warmer at the beginning and ending of the sweep.

Please let the thread know which is which. I think you peeked all of our interest.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:
Very precise work. But what is your conclusion ? Which one is the Kronos and wich one the Polysix ?


The brighter, more lively and resonant synth that is more colorful, and which has a strong subsonic and low end presence when filter resonance is cranked, is the analog Poly Six.

The synth with the subdued sounds that are more uniform and grayer is the Kronos.
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geoelectro
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember going to a Rodgers organ seminar where they had a combination pipe/electronic organ. They did a comparison between the electronic and pipe sounds and had us guess which was being played. We missed more than not because they exaggerated artifacts of pipe sounds in the electronic demo. More chiff, tuning etc. I was very surprised although we were they as techs, not musicians. Smile

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Synthee
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the nice comments about the video. Very Happy
And interesting to hear what you think.

The answer is: Number 1 is Kronos, and number 2 is Polysix.

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Darryll



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL...I was less than 50% confident. Number 2 is just slightly 'warmer'. BUT, with a little tweaking, I bet even that difference can be adjusted for. In this video, it is almost impossible to hear the difference with studio grade headphones. As a matter of fact, 'ALL' that replied to this on the korg forum got it wrong Smile So an audience in a live setting has no chance of hearing the difference.

It has been clearly demonstrated that the Kronos PolySix engine accurately emulates the PolySix synth. Other videos do the same with Mod-7 vs DX7, EP vs. Rhodes, and AL-1 vs analog. I'm confident that the Kronos will continue to be king of the hill for years to come. Thanks KORG for such an awesome synth!!
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korg's CMT method is nothing to be scoffed at. It's essentially "mind uploading" for analog gear. By encoding software with readouts from precise measurements of the original analog circuitry, you don't just end up with a very accurate representation of the analog hardware, but you also get the benefits of digital flexibility like split patch cables, effects, polyphony, added modulation sources and multitimbrality. That's what enables the MS-20EX to far outshine even the likes of a PS-3300, and the PolysixEX is no exception. I would always choose a Kronos over a piece of analog gear any day of the week. It's more convenient, more powerful, and even sounds better.

Also consider that we're not just talking about one readout but rather an averaging of many that distills a profile of what makes a Polysix a Polysix. That means the PolysixEX captures the "essence" of the original unit effectively making it more "Polysix" than any single hardware unit on a given day. Though to be fair I'm not sure if Andy Leary gathered his readings from a single unit or in fact used a few... but a piece of copper is a piece of copper and an IC is and IC so I don't really see a need for Korg R&D to have measured multiple units while gathering CMT data.

Sources / further reading:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/korg-legacy-analogue
http://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_collection/cmt.php
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Korg's CMT method is nothing to be scoffed at. It's essentially "mind uploading" for analog gear. By encoding software with readouts from precise measurements of the original analog circuitry, you don't just end up with a very accurate representation of the analog hardware, but you also get the benefits of digital flexibility like split patch cables, effects, polyphony, added modulation sources and multitimbrality. That's what enables the MS-20EX to far outshine even the likes of a PS-3300, and the PolysixEX is no exception. I would always choose a Kronos over a piece of analog gear any day of the week. It's more convenient, more powerful, and even sounds better.

Also consider that we're not just talking about one readout but rather an averaging of many that distills a profile of what makes a Polysix a Polysix. That means the PolysixEX captures the "essence" of the original unit effectively making it more "Polysix" than any single hardware unit on a given day. Though to be fair I'm not sure if Andy Leary gathered his readings from a single unit or in fact used a few... but a piece of copper is a piece of copper and an IC is and IC so I don't really see a need for Korg R&D to have measured multiple units while gathering CMT data.

Sources / further reading:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/korg-legacy-analogue
http://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_collection/cmt.php


I absolutely agree with you.

Therefore, one thing has to be added and considered : the digital/analog converter circuitry. It is a critical part of the sound flow. The sound quality your hear on your speakers or your headhpones depends on them. You could get the best digital machine of the world, upstream, if your D/A converter is just of a medium quality, you won't get a good sound at all.
And this is a part of the Kronos, no one is speaking about. Yet, we must say the A/D D/A Kronos circuits are absolutely outstanding ones.

I'm quite sure it's one reason, among all, we can get a so close analog synth emulation.
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Korg's CMT method is nothing to be scoffed at. It's essentially "mind uploading" for analog gear. By encoding software with readouts from precise measurements of the original analog circuitry, you don't just end up with a very accurate representation of the analog hardware, but you also get the benefits of digital flexibility like split patch cables, effects, polyphony, added modulation sources and multitimbrality. That's what enables the MS-20EX to far outshine even the likes of a PS-3300, and the PolysixEX is no exception. I would always choose a Kronos over a piece of analog gear any day of the week. It's more convenient, more powerful, and even sounds better.

Also consider that we're not just talking about one readout but rather an averaging of many that distills a profile of what makes a Polysix a Polysix. That means the PolysixEX captures the "essence" of the original unit effectively making it more "Polysix" than any single hardware unit on a given day. Though to be fair I'm not sure if Andy Leary gathered his readings from a single unit or in fact used a few... but a piece of copper is a piece of copper and an IC is and IC so I don't really see a need for Korg R&D to have measured multiple units while gathering CMT data.

Sources / further reading:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/korg-legacy-analogue
http://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_collection/cmt.php


I absolutely agree with you.

Therefore, one thing has to be added and considered : the digital/analog converter circuitry. It is a critical part of the sound flow. The sound quality your hear on your speakers or your headhpones depends on them. You could get the best digital machine of the world, upstream, if your D/A converter is just of a medium quality, you won't get a good sound at all.
And this is a part of the Kronos, no one is speaking about. Yet, we must say the A/D D/A Kronos circuits are absolutely outstanding ones.

I'm quite sure it's one reason, among all, we can get a so close analog synth emulation.
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Kontrol49
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Polysix was my first ever dealings with Korg (infact it was my first ever pro synth bought secondhand in 1986)The Polysix in the Kronos is superb and brings back memories although its not quite the same tactile experience Its great to have access to those sounds again in this day and age and I think Korg did a great Job of it

If only they would now Port the Arp Oddysey into the Kronos I would be eternally grateful to them Wink
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