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New Kronos/Logic owner! Any other former Fantom X/G users?
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studio460
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: New Kronos/Logic owner! Any other former Fantom X/G users? Reply with quote

New Kronos owner!

Hey guys! I just re-wrote/moved this from my other thread since it will be more on-topic here. I just ordered a Kronos 2 88 Platinum refurb an hour ago! I started here at KORGFORUMS way back when I first bought my Korg Radias (almost 10 years ago!). As a current Fantom G8-owner, I was just looking into upgrading my workstation, and the Kronos 2's 64GB SSD and available third-party strings libraries really sold me!

I also just bought my first DAW: Apple Logic Pro X (I've been 100% hardware-synths up until now). I mean I just bought it . . . last Friday. So, I'm still very new to the whole DAW experience. I've been using the Fantom's built-in 24-track RAM recorder for everything up until now.

I plan on replacing my Fantom G8 with a Kronos 2 88, then possibly putting my SRX boards into a Roland Sonic Cell. I still like and use my world/strings/orchestral ARX boards in my Fantom XR rack-unit. Here's my basic set-up:

Roland Fantom G8 + 2 SRX (replacing with Roland Sonic Cell to house SRX boards)
Roland Fantom XR + 3 ARX
Roland V-Synth GT
VirusTI Polar (keyboard)
Korg Radias

Apple Logic Pro X
iMac 27" Core i7 + 48GB RAM + 500GB SSD
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 +16GB RAM + 500GB SSD
Nektar Impact LX25+ 25-key MIDI controller (on order)

I also have a small Roland V-drum kit, plus a Roland TMC-6 trigger-to-MIDI converter so that I can use real drumsticks to trigger my percussion ARX sounds in my Fantom XR. (I also have guitars, tube-amps, pre-amps, and cabinets, which I mic with a Shure SM57 and an Audio-Technica large-diaphragm condenser mic.)

Are there any other former Fantom X/G/XR owners here who've switched to the Kronos?
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studio460
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

So if there are any former Fantom X/G/XR users out there, what did you do with your Fantom gear when you bought your Kronos? Did you keep it in your set-up, sell it, or (if this is possible) re-sample to your Kronos' SSD?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

studio460 wrote:
So if there are any former Fantom X/G/XR users out there, what did you do with your Fantom gear when you bought your Kronos? Did you keep it in your set-up, sell it, or (if this is possible) re-sample to your Kronos' SSD?



I never 'switched ' from Korg as I go back to the X5 and Triton days.

I had lots of Roland 7-15 yrs ago, Rd700GX1, 3080, Fantom XR, several SRX's.

When I got Kronos 88, all Roland was sold. That was 7 yrs ago.

Realistically, Roland has some great instrument sounds that Kronos can't touch.
True, you might be able to get some very good samples. Those are not cheap either.

I never bothered with sampling old gear.

You will see an FA07 in my gear list. Thats a recent addition. The FA has acoustic instruments that are better than Kronos. I am finally going DAW , too and the FA has good DAW integration. One of the reasons I got the FA, was to solve Polyphony issues with the K. I typically use up to 16 midi tracks on the SEQ so adding another keyboard was the simplest solution tony recording requirements.

Cubase is my new DAW, Logic interface doesn't appeal to me.

Congrats on your K2 purchase. Thats a big transition you are going thru.
You are used to lots of sound and gear.
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studio460
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
When I got Kronos 88, all Roland was sold. That was 7 yrs ago.

Thanks a lot for your comments, Greg! Those are just the kind of thoughts I was looking for. Did you dump your Roland gear after getting your new Kronos because it was simply so much "better," or were there other reasons as well? I know that I have a lot of Roland gear (which I was originally trying to avoid), and honestly, I've been burning out on that "Roland sound" in everything I have (which is what prompted me to get the Virus and the Radias). I typically don't sell any of my gear since I'd rather have it than lose everything I've already invested. I'm mainly thinking of getting the Sonic Cell just to save space (and to have a home for my ARX cards). My new Kronos 88 will go right where my Fantom G 88 is right now.

GregC wrote:
I never bothered with sampling old gear.

Is it because it's just too much of a hassle, or that the sounds in your new boards eliminated the need to have them? Do you miss any of your Fantom XR/ARX sounds?

GregC wrote:
You will see an FA07 in my gear list. That's a recent addition. The FA has acoustic instruments that are better than Kronos.


Really? I've been listening to Kronos YouTube demos for like the past 48 hours straight (mostly Yamaha Montage comparisons), and while the Yamaha's acoustic guitars and pianos may sound a bit more authentic, the Kronos' acoustic sounds in general really impressed me. Sorry for all the questions, but I really appreciate your views on this.

GregC wrote:
Congrats on your K2 purchase. Thats a big transition you are going thru. You are used to lots of sound and gear.

Thanks, man! I'm really, really excited to get it! The Kronos seems light-years ahead of my Fantom G. A lot has happened in 10 years!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

studio460 wrote:
GregC wrote:
When I got Kronos 88, all Roland was sold. That was 7 yrs ago.

Thanks a lot for your comments, Greg! Those are just the kind of thoughts I was looking for.

1) Did you dump your Roland gear after getting your new Kronos because it was simply so much "better," or were there other reasons as well? I know that I have a lot of Roland gear (which I was originally trying to avoid), and honestly, I've been burning out on that "Roland sound" in everything I have (which is what prompted me to get the Virus and the Radias).

2) I typically don't sell any of my gear since I'd rather have it than lose everything I've already invested. I'm mainly thinking of getting the Sonic Cell just to save space (and to have a home for my ARX cards).

My new Kronos 88 will go right where my Fantom G 88 is right now.

GregC wrote:

3) I never bothered with sampling old gear.

Is it because it's just too much of a hassle, or that the sounds in your new boards eliminated the need to have them? Do you miss any of your Fantom XR/ARX sounds?

GregC wrote:
You will see an FA07 in my gear list. That's a recent addition. The FA has acoustic instruments that are better than Kronos.


4) Really? I've been listening to Kronos YouTube demos for like the past 48 hours straight (mostly Yamaha Montage comparisons), and while the Yamaha's acoustic guitars and pianos may sound a bit more authentic,

5) the Kronos' acoustic sounds in general really impressed me. Sorry for all the questions, but I really appreciate your views on this.

GregC wrote:
Congrats on your K2 purchase. Thats a big transition you are going thru. You are used to lots of sound and gear.

Thanks, man! I'm really, really excited to get it!

6)The Kronos seems light-years ahead of my Fantom G. A lot has happened in 10 years!


I think you are doing a good job weaving thru the complexity of all these very good to excellent gear choices. I like to analyze the pros and cons and think it thru.

To break it down:

1) The 3080 was redundant since I had the XR and the Rd700GX1. I believe I sold the 3080 in 2009/2010. Keep in mind, I am not a gear collector. More of a minimalist. Or just cheap Smile

2) When I first heard Kronos at 2011 NAMM, I knew it was time to restart my entire rig. Had the XS7, Triton Extreme, Rd700GX1 and the XR. All 4 were sold in 4-5 months. Since all were popular, perfect condition, they went within 1-3 weeks of an ad.

I was tired of the Roland sound in 2011. I felt I sounded like everyone else with my Roland stuff. All the above gear didn't translate to a diversity in my palette. 1000's of sounds, but maybe 50-100 were standout. And I had too much overlap. For example, I wanted 1 great AP ( acoustic piano) , not 4 very good ones . Simple IS better. So I cleaned house.

3) Sampling is too much work for someone like me. Sampling with the XR got frustrating. I ran into an obstacle and bailed.
My thing is song writing. That and recording is where I spend 95% of my time.

Yes, I did miss many ( ? 10 or 20) of the SRX sounds. But I had larger priorities so I had to let go in 2011.

4) I am sure about the FA being strong in certain instrument categories. Even my wife said 'wow, that sounds different than your Kronos '. And keep in mind, I am sitting in my perfect environment for A vs B. You can't make that kind of 'perfect' decision based on a YT video.

5) and I have had some success in getting acoustic instruments to record really nice on my Kronos. All my songs are 100% Kronos- go to my Sound cloud.
Sax, trumpet, violin, cello, flute, acoustic guitar , string section, its all there.

But, Kronos(the K) does not have all the great saxes. or guitars. I call them good-very good. They do not have layers of articulation. But I squeeze the most out of them. Its possible you are hearing convincing recordings of the K on YT. There are dozemns.

6) You might laugh- I almost picked up a Fantom X , the 76, for $300 last October. After a day or 2, I realized, its to old , recording to a DAW will be a hassle ( i think) . Then I realized the FA was a near perfect solution to partner
with my Kronos. And to fit into my DAW/Cubase recording plans.

So thats my story. I hope I haven't been confusing. I have my opinions and my own style.

I would predict you are going to have a great time with your K. Reason I have 30 songs recorded using the K is my focus is on only using that. But I want to improve on that and progress further with future song ideas I have.
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studio460
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

I think you are doing a good job weaving thru the complexity of all these very good to excellent gear choices. I like to analyze the pros and cons and think it thru.

Thanks! I tend to go in deep when I spend $$$$ on stuff! I think the combination of the Kronos and Apple Logic will really open up the possibilities for me. It's what I've always dreamed of: realistic-sounding strings.

GregC wrote:
2) When I first heard Kronos at 2011 NAMM, I knew it was time to restart my entire rig. Had the XS7, Triton Extreme, Rd700GX1 and the XR. All 4 were sold in 4-5 months. Since all were popular, perfect condition, they went within 1-3 weeks of an ad.

Gotcha! Redundancy and market value. I could still get some cash for my mint-condition Fantom G8 (I don't gig), but I think I may as well keep it (I just won't have anywhere to put it!).

GregC wrote:
I was tired of the Roland sound in 2011 . . . Simple IS better. So I cleaned house.

Yup! Tell me about it! I just wanted to hear someone else say it, too. I think simpler is better, and I'm glad the Kronos will help streamline my work product. I love my Virus, but I rarely use it. It just doesn't seem to "fit" anywhere. Perhaps that will change once I get my Kronos string libraries, because that Virus makes some uber-wicked sounds (plus, it uses a different synthesis method than all my other boards)! My V-Synth GT, I just never "got." I thought I could use it to design some crazy sounds, but I'm too dumb to figure out how to do it. To me, all my V-Synth patches all sound the same . . . and all, like " R O L A N D-ey."

GregC wrote:
3) Sampling is too much work for someone like me.

Good to know. Although I'm very technically astute in other things, I seem to be a total dope when it comes to working with my synths.

GregC wrote:
Yes, I did miss many ( ? 10 or 20) of the SRX sounds. But I had larger priorities so I had to let go in 2011.

Again, thanks. I'm definitely keeping my Fantom XR and orchestral SRX/ARX boards.

GregC wrote:
5) and I have had some success in getting acoustic instruments to record really nice on my Kronos. All my songs are 100% Kronos- go to my Sound cloud.
Sax, trumpet, violin, cello, flute, acoustic guitar , string section, its all there.

Wow! Your EP sounds great! Excellent work! Which vocal processor was used? Also, the sax in "Body Heat" is really nice. That's the Kronos' factory sax? I have the Fantom G's ARX brass board which sounds pretty good. Do you have any idea how it compares with Kronos' brass?

GregC wrote:
6) You might laugh- I almost picked up a Fantom X , the 76, for $300 last October. After a day or 2, I realized, its to old , recording to a DAW will be a hassle ( i think) .

Ha! Wow! That's so cheap! I don't recall if the X had sound + MIDI over USB or not. The G certainly does, and should pair nicely with my Logic Pro as soon as I figure out the settings (still can't play the Fantom into the iMac yet!).

GregC wrote:
So thats my story. I hope I haven't been confusing. I have my opinions and my own style.

I would predict you are going to have a great time with your K. Reason I have 30 songs recorded using the K is my focus is on only using that. But I want to improve on that and progress further with future song ideas I have.

Not at all! Your comments have been very helpful—thanks! Again, I couldn't be more excited to get my new Kronos and start using it my new DAW. The Kronos finally has the sound quality to do what I've been wanting to do for a long, long time.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Keep, sell, re-sample? Reply with quote

[quote="studio460"]
GregC wrote:


Gotcha! Redundancy and market value. I could still get some cash for my mint-condition Fantom G8 (I don't gig), but I think I may as well keep it (I just won't have anywhere to put it!).

Perhaps that will change once I get my Kronos string libraries, because that

GregC wrote:
Yes, I did miss many ( ? 10 or 20) of the SRX sounds. But I had larger priorities so I had to let go in 2011.

Again, thanks. I'm definitely keeping my Fantom XR and orchestral SRX boards.

GregC wrote:
5) and I have had some success in getting acoustic instruments to record really nice on my Kronos. All my songs are 100% Kronos- go to my Sound cloud.
Sax, trumpet, violin, cello, flute, acoustic guitar , string section, its all there.

The sax in "Body Heat" is really nice. That's the Kronos' factory sax? I have the Fantom G's ARX brass board which sounds pretty good. Do you have any idea how it compares with Kronos' brass?

.


I don't gig either. But I am considering a 1 man band attempt maybe late this summer. I would have spend a ton on audio gear to do it right. So I would need to get pushed and motivated greatly to do that.

How fun you picked up on Body Heat ( from 1981 !) I love movie soundtracks and I put that together a few months ago. I am sure that Sax is on your K2.
I think I goosed that Sax program with extra FX. Kronos FX are excellent- you are in for a treat.

You might remember Foreigners " Urgent ", with that killer Junior Walker
sax solo. I recorded my cover on Urgent and the Kronos was not even in the ball park for that screaming Sax solo. Your Roland gear will have stronger
individual Sax types ( there are at least 3 types) . Same with trumpets.

Kronos does have spicey brass ensembles. They are layered nicely and have some catchy articulation. I did some decent French Horn work on my last SC song- When You Love Someone. French Horn seems easier to make authentic.

I think , once you get your K2, you should sit down and do a careful A vs B.
Give it some time as the K2 is going to take over your day.

I think the K's factory " Orchestras" are very nice. Take some time to enjoy the
small/medium large ensembles on your K. My FA has next to nothing on Orchestra. Maybe a few String Sections. But not a balls to the Wall Orchestras
like your K2.

I think its important, at least for my style, to have good hands, and have a nice feel for acoustic instruments.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Integra 7, which I believe encapsulates or betters *all* of Roland's earlier tech, from JV to Fantom to Juno to FA to GAIA to Jupiter (from a sound module point of view). Even the boutique models are at the least on the same footing (I had and returned the JU-06). My first synth was the Juno 106... :heart:

I use mine as a sound module using the Studio Sets as a sort of backup or redundant sound source for my cover band Kronos combis. Keep in mind that the Integra has almost all of the SRX/ARX libraries as well as the Roland Super Natural TDx series of drum brain modules! Say what?! Integra 7 as drum brain module for your custom-built e-drum trigger set? You betcha.

Breathe in. Breathe out.

There is a certain synth "juiciness" that the Integra gets by default better than most of the Kronos sounds. Its Category system is superior to the Kronos, at least from a cover musician point of view, because its 6000+ default sounds are more likely to have *that sound* you're looking for (yay 80s!), and if not, can be quickly dialed in using the Studio Set offset adjustments for Cutoff, Resonance, Attack, Decay, and Release, as well as 4 band +/- 15 dB EQ.

I select songs via the Kronos Set List mode, and the slaved Integra calls up the associated Studio Set. The combination of Kronos + Integra is fantastic, esp since the Integra's SupeNatural tech has acoustic instrument articulations that the Kronos lacks (guitars, violins, brass, and saxes). The Integra Studio Set "combination" model for MIDI channel and keyboard / velocity zones is very similar to Kronos combi mode parameters, meaning you can very quickly and intuitively layer and split Kronos + Integra for extra fatness and variety...

Bottomline -- if you can afford it, are looking for great *bang for the buck*, and want Roland's top of line and entire sound history as well, you can't go wrong with the 2u rack mount Integra 7.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input—very interesting!

Yes! I have to agree—that's pretty impressive—the equivalent of all 12 SRX boards inside! The smart move would be to sell my Fantom G and Fantom XR to finance an Integra-7 rackmount. I just laid down some (real) electric guitar tracks on my Fantom over an old backing track I made, and the Fantom's built-in 24-track RAM recorder really makes banging out quick demos easy as pie. Not sure I can part with that yet!

Currently, my Fantom is my main recording station: I have all of my synths and mic preamps (for the guitar-cabinet mics) into a 10x2 TRS switcher, and it all goes into the Fantom's stereo TRS inputs. As I said, I'm currently all-hardware, and boy everything just works (I can't even get my Fantom to play into my iMac over USB yet!).

But a 2U rack-unit would go a long way toward tidying up the studio and unifying my modules and expansion boards into a single, more up-to-date, USB-able device. Perfect for my new Apple DAW! Add to that, some of the premium V-Drum modules also inside the box—again, perfect for my Roland TMC-6 trigger-to-MIDI converter.

A single unit with all those sounds and modules is very, very tempting . . . plus, what you say about having the "right" sound for all your covers seems pretty damn handy. Just when I was ready to leave Roland, you pull me back in! Maybe I just need to wait for a few more paychecks and just buy the damn thing!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Fantom X6 for many years, but sold it off when I bought my first Kronos in 2011.

Sonically, I just decided to move on. I did miss the orchestral SRX cards I had, but I now use the Kirk Hunter libraries for all my orchestral dabblings. Other than that, I've re-created most of the sounds that I couldn't do without.

I also had the FA-06 for a while, but I couldn't handle the keybed and velocity scaling, so I ditched it for a Yamaha MX/Melos MX tools combination which I'm very happy with.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a Roland guy for years and still have a Fantom G7, 2 5080s, 2080, xp80, xp30, and all JV/SRX/ARX cards. Ugh! I should really clean house. I never thought my Kronos would replace it all. I have sampled one sound from an SRX card that I could not replicate in my K. Perhaps an Integra would be nice. Or even a second Kronos!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantom G audio-recorder UI vs. Kronos:

Thanks again for your thoughts, guys! As I said, I just laid down a (real) electric guitar track in my Fantom, and that has to be the easiest-to-use 24-track recorder on any workstation. My option was to use the G8 as my main keyboard (the the ivory-feel keys on the G8 are pretty amazing), and opt for a Kronos 61-key open-box unit for $2,399, then use the K2 only for the strings and orchestral sounds. Of course, then I discovered the limited-edition K2 88 Platinum model and found a B-stock sample for only $2,995. The 61-key K2 would've fit the bill nicely, and I would've kept my G8 as my main controller. But I really fell in love with the aesthetics of the platinum model.

So I decided to order the Kronos 88 Platinum (won't be here until Friday), and put it where the G8 is now. While the Integra-7 rackmount would be an elegant solution, of course, now I'm having second thoughts about getting rid of the G8. For any of you who've used the Fantom G's 24-track recorder, you know how sh*t-ass easy it is to use to lay down quick ideas (to me, the Kronos' recorder UI looks much less DAW-like than the G's). Here's a screen-shot of someone else's Fantom G:


Roland Fantom G 24-track audio-recorder UI.

The audio-track waveform graphics are expandable both vertically and horizontally, so you're actually able to do some pretty high-precision DAW-like edits right in the G8 by looking at the breaks in the waveforms, just like in a real DAW. Are you also able to see the waveforms in the timeline in the Kronos UI? (i.e., Without having to view the individual samples in a "sample edit" screen?).

Even if I do ever figure out how to get my synths to play into Logic, I may just stay with the G8's built-in recorder since I know it so well and it's so easy to use. As an idea scratch-pad, it's hard to beat. Sure, once I get an actual song built, then I can go into full-DAW mode and dive into Logic on the computer. But as a sheer, get-the-ideas-out tool, it's tough to beat. (Note that I never use MIDI tracks—I only record digital-audio tracks 100% of the time.) How does everyone like using the audio-recorder portion of the UI in your Kronos? What are the things you don't like about it?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

studio460 wrote:
Fantom G audio-recorder UI vs. Kronos:

t?


I realize this is not your question, I thought I read your Kronos 88 Platinum is a demo.

Give yourself a solid 2 weeks on that to make sure it is 100%

and in order to understand the basics, I recommend watching the Kronos tutorials by Korg very soon.

I don't recall if you had a Triton . Kronos has learning curve.

Even long time owners are discovering new capabilities.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

studio460 wrote:
Fantom G audio-recorder UI vs. Kronos:


My two cents as a newer Kronos user (though I'm no newbie at all to digital audio). If Korg ever did another OS update for the Kronos, I would hope that the sequencer would be the main thing that gets some love.

Don't get me wrong. I think that it is fairly fully featured, and even has some stand out features like per track loop points. But the interface feels to me like something they lifted out of a pre-Oasys model. This is my first Korg workstation so I don't know if that's actually what they did. The SEQ UI struck me as a bit arcane, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
studio460 wrote:
Fantom G audio-recorder UI vs. Kronos:


My two cents as a newer Kronos user (though I'm no newbie at all to digital audio). If Korg ever did another OS update for the Kronos, I would hope that the sequencer would be the main thing that gets some love.

.


you have a good perspective since you are experienced on other platforms.

The SEQ flow seems dated. I think the original concept goes back to Triton and/or Oasys.

I believe progression stopped by 2010 or further back.

Mike Conway could speak to SEQ history thru the decades much better than I can attempt.

I happen to like history, so I am interested in how the SEQ progressed.

FYI, I like old and comfortable. My car is old. my clothes are old. etc, etc.

Anyway, its not about the old car in my driveway or impressing the neighbors.

Its about getting around the SEQ and producing great music.

Aristotle said that, “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.” In other words, when individual parts are connected together to form one entity, they are worth more than if the parts were in silos.

There is our lesson for the day Smile
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Kronos 88. nanoPAD2. Roland FA-07, MBP, UR44
Achieve your musical dreams Smile
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