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tomyl
Junior Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 96
Location: USA
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry my ignorance..
So we can create separate folders in the Songbook and group the songs accordingly?
Thanks
Linson |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: Style Change |
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| B.Safe wrote: | | .... probably the reason why Korg removed this feature as it was very confusing with the songbook entry but with less possibilities .. |
No - "StyleChange" was nothing confusing with songbook entry, but a simply link of one performance to one style - activated by a simple on/off-button for direct access "Style Change".
That had nothing to do with a songbook, but with the simple change of a style in case changing a performance. This was ideal for intuitive music without a predetermined musical order of styles or songs, without the need to change into songbook mode in case of working with performances / registrations / patches and not songbased styles or smfs.
To maintain that removing this feature is a shame - I agree, because we had not less possibilities but more, by being able to use style change when needed and easy to use works best with the most suitable function for the desired application (perfomance, songbook, autoselect performance ..).
We also had the songbook function in case one would use his instrument songbased - therefore one does not have to mention the advantages the songbook, that is nothing new and we could also use sb-functions.
But now the function of "style change" is missing, if one preferred to use it - that is a real limitation we had not before last serie.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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NativeAngels
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 861
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: Songbook Entries |
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Coming from the Pa50sd there was only performances no song book entries.
I basically filled all the performance banks on there with sounds and sound combinations that I liked. I would use any of these performance settings on the fly with what ever song I was playing,quick access and minimal gaps between songs.
I'm doing the same with my Pa700 going through the styles I've downloaded trying the keyboard sets, if I like a sound or combination in a style storing in one of the user keyboard libraries. I can use these on the fly like the performances on the Pa50sd but now can store more.
_________________
Gem Wk4, Technics Kn5000, Solton Ms60, Yamaha Psr K1, Korg Pa50sd, Tyros 4, Korg Pa700 |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: Structure of songbook |
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| tomyl wrote: | | ... so we can create separate folders in the Songbook and group the songs accordingly? .. |
No separate folders in the songbook, but you can create as many different songbooks as you like. At one time you only have access to one songbook that was last loaded, or added/merged with songbook entries from a direct set.
What you can do grouping the songs accordingly is using the Set Lists, that are selections from the full SongBook list. They allow for smaller, customized lists, suitable for a single gig or your own music preferences.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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johnsmies
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | B.Safe wrote: | | .... probably the reason why Korg removed this feature as it was very confusing with the songbook entry but with less possibilities .. |
No - "StyleChange" was nothing confusing with songbook entry, but a simply link of one performance to one style - activated by a simple on/off-button for direct access "Style Change".
That had nothing to do with a songbook, but with the simple change of a style in case changing a performance. This was ideal for intuitive music without a predetermined musical order of styles or songs, without the need to change into songbook mode in case of working with performances / registrations / patches and not songbased styles or smfs.
To maintain that removing this feature is a shame - I agree, because we had not less possibilities but more, by being able to use style change when needed and easy to use works best with the most suitable function for the desired application (perfomance, songbook, autoselect performance ..).
We also had the songbook function in case one would use his instrument songbased - therefore one does not have to mention the advantages the songbook, that is nothing new and we could also use sb-functions.
But now the function of "style change" is missing, if one preferred to use it - that is a real limitation we had not before last serie. |
thank you Siebenhirter, I could not have put it better myself. I have, once again, brought this to the attention of our Korg representative, emphasizing the fact that a lot of longtime Korg PA users would like to see the re-introduction of the Style Change button, thus making it possible again to also store the total registration under the righthand ( keyset) buttons ( apart from the Songbook that is).
Many people here seem to start on the assumption that :
a/ nearly every Korg PA user is a gigging artist, performing to audiences I mean, and therefore needs an endless amount of setlist and songlists.....
I would venture to say that here in Holland ( where there are more arranger keyboards per 1000 inhabitants than anywhere else in the world ) at least 50% of the Korg owners are home players, not gigging artists. With the Yamaha keyboards this is even higher, I would say 75% of them are only playing their arranger keyboard at home. The "old " set up with two possibilities to store your total registrations was very favourable for creative programming and recording at home.
b/
Come to mention it I am always astonished how folks are talking about numbers here. There seems to be an insatiable quest for more, more, more.
1700 sounds ?, more than 1000 styles ??, etc.etc. Have you ever wondered how many truly good sounds you really need ? Same with styles really. A fundamentally good style can be tweaked in many ways , still leaving you with a really good style. Songbook entries......how many songbooks do you want ? 10.000 ???? Let's get real folks it is not about quantity anymore it is all about quality these days. !!!!
regards,
John
P.S. Native Angels, you must have missed the point. You CANNOT do with the PA700 what you could do on the PA50sd as regards total registrations, as explained by Siebenhirter.... |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | No - "StyleChange" was nothing confusing with songbook entry, but a simply link of one performance to one style - activated by a simple on/off-button for direct access "Style Change".
That had nothing to do with a songbook, but with the simple change of a style in case changing a performance. |
You are wrong, compared to a Keyboard Set, performance was more than just a link to a style. It also contained what was called "PERF sty" which allowed you to include style parameters in your performance, that were different from those in the linked style. Korg removed not only the StyleChange link but all the "PERF sty" parameters that could be registered in Performances.
This previously permitted to use a performance as a Total Registration as called by johnsmies. But here was the confusion with Songbook which also recorded those "PERF sty".
The consequence of this was that there were 2 main ways to organize the songs in PA instruments which were not compatible.
This explains that some users of PA (including me) did not use JS resources as they were not organized in the SB way but in the Total Registration way which we couldn't use.
So at least I'm happy that John confirmed he will use the SB structure now. This will give him new opportunities to share his JS resources  |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| johnsmies wrote: |
Many people here seem to start on the assumption that :
a/ nearly every Korg PA user is a gigging artist, performing to audiences I mean, and therefore needs an endless amount of setlist and songlists.....
b/
Come to mention it I am always astonished how folks are talking about numbers here. There seems to be an insatiable quest for more, more, more.
1700 sounds ?, more than 1000 styles ??, etc.etc. |
John,
even if PA means Professional Arranger, I do not oppose gigging artists and home players. I'm myself more a home player now.
But what I'm looking for in an arranger is to find the right style and the appropriate sound for a song I would play and the more you have in the instrument, the more chances you have to find the right one.
It's the same when it comes to sharing songs with your friends. This gives you a large database of songs where you are more likely to find the one you are looking for.
So quantity is not against quality. Both will contribute to the result.
But to manage quantity, you need a real database, with filtering, grouping, sorting etc... |
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johnsmies
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| B.Safe wrote: | ".
The consequence of this was that there were 2 main ways to organize the songs in PA instruments which were not compatible.
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This tread is getting progressively more interesting imho, not surprisingly so with knowledgable folks contributing 
Other than the short quote I do agree with most of your comments B.Safe.
And as mentioned Korg has left me no other choice now than to save my total settings in the Songbook (+setlist). On the subject of numbers ( quality) I still think we are spoiled for choice and that quite a few do not see the wood for the trees. I wrote which is what I hope , an interesting item on that subject on the SZ general arranger forum which you can find here:
http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/450328/Searchpage/1/Main/58639/Words/korg/Search/true/SPOILED_FOR_CHOICE............#Post450328
The more I program on the PA1000 the more I am impressed with its sounds and options.............(to be continued).
regards,
John
P.S. B.Safe , I sent you a PM. |
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satya_music
Full Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 125
Location: Bahrain
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you ... mrniceneasy
God bless you.
Best regards,
satya
_________________
HARVESTmelodies
Jacinth Palace
satya_music@yahoo.com.au
Current gears: Korg PA700, Korg TR 61, Korg PA600, AKAI MPC 1000, M-AUDIO Mtrack Plus, Audio-Technica AT2020, Casio CTK5000, Nikon D5500 and Sony PJ410.
Previous gears: Korg Krome, Korg o1wFD, Yamaha PSR-S970, Yamaha PSR-S900, Yamaha PSR 2000, Yamaha PSR 520. |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| B.Safe wrote: | | .. You are wrong, compared to a Keyboard Set, performance was more than just a link to a style .. |
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No, concerning Korg-Pa-Keyboards kbdSets simply is another name for performances.
If you think I am wrong, why not you're studying technical documentation or just trying to work with a Pa800 / Pa3x, you'll learn that a KeyboardSet is nothing more than a performance, except that the KeyboardSet lacks the link address to a style.
There was also no confusion with songbook, because this was made for playing with songs, like for stage artists with a given program, whereas - not only for homeplayers - often Performances are used for registrations of the realtime-tracks; nothing else now do kbdsets.
The question of compatibility is pointless in this context, because songbook and performances complement each other in combination, can be used in parallel and in combination as well as now songbook and newly renamed keyboard sets - because keyboard sets are performances, but with a different name.
Using songbook, kbdsets or autoselect for selections its only a question of ones workflow and how inividual one likes to use an instrument - the more possibilities there are for customization, the better it is for users. If one did not like "StyleChange"-Button there is no reason for him to use it - but if you would like to use these features, you can not if missing!
Compare the Pa4x manual (Overview File Management Page 918), you can see that the file type PRF of Pa4x is a KeyboardSet from Pa4xLibrary and still is stored as Bank01.prf --- Bank11.prf and Usr01.prf --- Usr11.prf. So KeyboardSet is nothing new - only Performances as usual with misssing style links.
So please do not try to invent something that is not or to assert what you have come up with, but to seriously use documents that describe technical issues correctly.
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As already mentioned - easy to use works best with the most suitable function for the desired application (perfomance/kbdSet, songbook, autoselect performance, autoselect style ..) - that really are not different ways which were not compatible, but good functions to be used in combination to get results as imagined. A disadvantage any function that could be use well but is no longer offered.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Style Change |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | ...why not you're studying technical documentation or just trying to work with a Pa800 / Pa3x, you'll learn... |
I'm playing the PA800 for 10 years now and I still have it next to my new PA1000 |
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johnsmies
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Guys this is not a contest in who knows best. You both are well-versed in the Korg PA series and the point I was trying to make about the former Performances was that something useful to many has been taken away from the current series. ( that is by omitting the Style Change Button and its consequences). In that respect I fully agree with Siebenhirter.
However I am under the impression that your equation : Performances= Keyboard Sets "is not correct. Like B.Safe I had the PA800 for a number of years and before I had the PA500 and the PA80. It is my believe that the equation should be: Performances = Songbook Entries. ( or was I should say of course.)
Example:
I select a style. Then I select three new upper sounds and a lower sound.
Than I change three acc. tracks by changing their sounds, their reverb , their chorus en eq settings. When all of that is done I could safe it in the PA800 either as a Songbook Entry or as a Performance. ( as long as I kept the Style Change button engaged).
Anyhow it is all water under the bridge now as you can only safe a full registration in Songbook now. I know it the subject will be put forward by our Dutch Korg representative but I doubt Korg is willing to bring back the Style Change button and thus the opportunity to save the registration in the other way as well.
have a good weekend,
John |
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simondrake
Full Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys, thanks for this very interesting discussion. I'd like to know if with this new keyboard set function it is possible to store in the different sts different chords recognition options. My aim is to have a set where in sts 1 I can play a piano suond with the full keyboard chords scanning and maybe sts 2 a split point so that I can play a solo with my right hand and chords on the left.
With my pa2x it is not possible, neither in songbook mode nor in the performances.
Can it be done in pa 700-1000?
Thanks. Simone |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: Individual chord recognitions per STS / Performance |
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| simondrake wrote: | | .. With my pa2x it is not possible, neither in songbook mode nor in the performances. Can it be done in pa 700-1000? .. |
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It is possible with Pa2x - use Pa2x Split panel touch the Split tab to select this panel - this is where you can set the split point, Chord Recognition mode and their lock icons.
Both - split point and chord recognition could be saved in Performances and also in STS. Split point and chord recognition mode only remains unchanged when selecting a different Performance or STS in case if locked. If not locked with each STS and Performance you select and use different Split Points and Recognition Modes that changed according to the stored settings.
Note, that when in Full or Upper Chord Scanning mode, the Fingered 3 mode is always selected (more information “Chord Recognition Mode” on page 106 Pa2x-manual).
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It is not possible with Pa1000 because poorly solved use of the chord recognition function, unfortunately only stored globally in the style preferences. Therefore can no longer be used with different modes in the individual KbdSets.
This (Style Preferences global) is by the way a strong criticism of the OS of the Pa1000, since not only the Chord recognition, but also the Velocity switch controllable style functions can only be stored and set globally, whereas this could be stored with previous models per KbdSet and used much better and more varied.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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simondrake
Full Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Individual chord recognitions per STS / Performance |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | simondrake wrote: | | .. With my pa2x it is not possible, neither in songbook mode nor in the performances. Can it be done in pa 700-1000? .. |
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It is possible with Pa2x - use Pa2x Split panel touch the Split tab to select this panel - this is where you can set the split point, Chord Recognition mode and their lock icons.
Both - split point and chord recognition could be saved in Performances and also in STS. Split point and chord recognition mode only remains unchanged when selecting a different Performance or STS in case if locked. If not locked with each STS and Performance you select and use different Split Points and Recognition Modes that changed according to the stored settings.
Note, that when in Full or Upper Chord Scanning mode, the Fingered 3 mode is always selected (more information “Chord Recognition Mode” on page 106 Pa2x-manual).
*
It is not possible with Pa1000 because poorly solved use of the chord recognition function, unfortunately only stored globally in the style preferences. Therefore can no longer be used with different modes in the individual KbdSets.
This (Style Preferences global) is by the way a strong criticism of the OS of the Pa1000, since not only the Chord recognition, but also the Velocity switch controllable style functions can only be stored and set globally, whereas this could be stored with previous models per KbdSet and used much better and more varied. |
Thank you very much, I did not know that. I was taught that split/chord recognition were global parameters that could not be stored individually for performances, sts or SB entries. I'll try this ASAP since this was one of the reasons why I wanted to change my pa2x, but if it like you say I'll reconsider my keyboard.
Hugs from Italy and thank you very much for being so supportive . Simone |
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