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Chord tracking in full keyboard mode

 
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Christophe



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Chord tracking in full keyboard mode Reply with quote

Hi

Does anyone have a demo or experience of how the PA4X tracks chords when playing in full keyboard mode, both hands. I don't want to just play chords with my left hand while my right hand plays a fingered melody and I'd love to see how it works when both hands are playing chords / part chords but I haven't seen a demo of this so far.
I have a Roland piano with styles built in, but it fails to recognise for example a left hand bass note and a couple of notes in a higher octave as a chord, so full keyboard mode is pretty bad.

The 4x sounds great as far as I can tell, but before I venture afar to check one out it would be great to know if it could track a piece of music like for eaxmple Billy Joel, Just the way you are, piano version, or am I barking up the wrong tree and maybe should get something like Band in a box to get a decent backing arrangement ?

Thanks for any advice,

Chris
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mintjamman
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015
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Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own take on this is as a style based instrument the Korg Pa4x does very well a lot of the time to work up song arrangements but often Bass lines and Drum fills wont sit that well if you are looking for a accurate arrangement for a particular song.

Using Chord Scanning for upper and lower does work especially for Jazz type stuff and I use that often. For arrangements of songs however I either use customised style arrangements, the multitrack sequencer of a midi file edited to use Pa4x sounds and effects.

Not sure if that is what your asking
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Christophe



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice.

I just wanted to know if it would play along with me while I play a song 'piano style' without it sounding like I was from the Les Dawson school of music ( the Best, Worst piano player ever ! )

I think I'll have to go along and try one out.

Cheers

Chris
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mintjamman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only way to know if it works for you is to give it a try, you may have to compenstate
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do it all the time on the pa4x, it works quite well, but you have to adept your playing technique to make the most out of the chord recognition.

there are a few things to know when you play with full keyboard chord scanning:
- The chord is recognised (and changed) when ever you play three or more notes together.
- when you hold the sustain pedal and play an arpeggio which makes up a chord, then this is not recognised as a chord (which is quite convenient during play)
- It is possible to play different kind of bass note instead of the root bass note when you activate the inversion bass button

My experience is that this works the best when you hold the lowest note to determine the bass note of the root chord (in inversion bass mode). Then the other two notes that you play will determine the chord it's in. As long as you be sure that your piano play will have at least three notes of the chord during each chord change at the start of a measure it will work.

What doesn't work is when you play multiple notes together as part of a riff (like for instance playing and holding the notes C - Eb - G en then instantly move on the Bb - C - F which is a completely valid chord arpeggio in piano play, then you will have a C chord and then a Bbsus2 chord, instead of the C chord all the way. This is easy to avoid if you adapt your playing thechnique so that you you hold the C note with your left hand all the way and play the notes as an arpeggio with the sustain pedal active.

This sounds more complicated then it actually is. Within one hour you will see that you adapt to the chord recognition system.

However, if you expect that the chord scanning works like constantly scanning possible chord arpeggios that you play, then you will be disappointed, that doesn't work, since chords only change when at least three notes are pressed at the same time.

Now more and more i use the chord sequencer, this is a very easy way to record your chord progressions and then when you activate it, the system will continue to play your chord progression and you can play free over this progression. It's very powerful and you can record that sequence during your part or upfront.

Here's an example i've posted earlier where i use the chord sequencer that way:


Last edited by QuiRobinez on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Christophe



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.

It sounds like it will do the job as long as some adaptation is made which is fine.
Your sequencer demo sounds great and I can understand that this would be the ideal way, although since I have so many song books with so many songs, just having the arranger keep up with me would be good. The odd error doesn't really matter - it's only me at home playing for fun so a pA4x might seem like overkill, but I do like a nice bit of tech.

Thanks again

Chris.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christophe wrote:

Your sequencer demo sounds great and I can understand that this would be the ideal way, although since I have so many song books with so many songs, just having the arranger keep up with me would be good.


actually, this is not the sequencer, but this is a chord sequence that's stored in the songbook with this style. Every style (or songbook entry) can contain a chord sequence which you can activate whenever you want.

So it's possible for instance to play the entire song the conventional way in a style (with the chord recognition) and then instantly activate the chord sequence with a press on a button which takes over the chords and then you have your hands free for instance for a piano solo with extra chords (like a jazz tune).

So it's not a midi file in the sequencer but the style you hear, which gives you access to intro's, fills, variations, endings, break, etc. and there you can add that chord sequence to (in the style, or in the songbook).
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Christophe



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all becoming clear and I'm liking it more and more. I think I'm about 20 years behind in my knowledge of these machines. Time to catch up.

Thanks again.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christophe wrote:
It's all becoming clear and I'm liking it more and more. I think I'm about 20 years behind in my knowledge of these machines. Time to catch up.

Thanks again.

to make it more clear i recorded a new demo where i use standard chord recognition when you play the piano in a style.

see the demo in:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=113862

Hope this helps making it clearer how things works nowadays
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Christophe



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiRobinez wrote:
Christophe wrote:
It's all becoming clear and I'm liking it more and more. I think I'm about 20 years behind in my knowledge of these machines. Time to catch up.

Thanks again.

to make it more clear i recorded a new demo where i use standard chord recognition when you play the piano in a style.

see the demo in:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=113862

Hope this helps making it clearer how things works nowadays


Indeed it does, just how I hoped. Excellent demo with some really nice sounds. Thanks.
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