Korg Forums

[CharlesFerraro]

​I wrote this awhile ago in response to another thread but filed it away. These are some thoughts on what route Korg or a competitor could take in regards to the workstation market.

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Let's consider what Korg could do if they were to make another workstation.

First to cross off the list, they wouldn’t do a watered down approach ex. OASYS > M3 > Microstation. The Krome already fulfills that role and the Kross just got revamped last year.

Next there's the beefed up approach: Creating a workstation with specs that outperform the previous iteration. Kronos > KronosX > Kronos2. I think they'd only do that if someone else stepped into the workstation arena… which is unlikely.
Allow me some exposition on that point though. It would be pretty easy to fire back at any competition by just releasing a Kronos3 with KARMA 3.0 and extra engines that utilize CMT like the Mono/Poly or Odyssei. They could also throw in the added engines that went into the GrandStage or update some engines from the OASYS PCI like Tenor Sax physical modeling or the ProSynth Prophet emulation. My point is that all the tech is there, all Korg would have to do is repackage their IP without having to build anything from the ground up. Add some pads and you have quite the beast. But again... totally unnecessary without competition... or at least until the Kronos 2 stops selling.

Finally there's the insane visionary approach. This is where they build something new from the ground up. That's how a thing like the OASYS was created in the first place. But there's a problem... Looking at other visionary examples like the Hartmann Neuron Synthesizer, both it and the OASYS PCI were veritable financial failures so there's a lot of risk that makes this exciting option a doubtful enterprise.
More exposition as far as option three goes... think about what the goals of such a workstation would be. The unit would have to:
-Be at home on stage and in the studio which means performance controls and DAW integration.
-Contain cutting edge synthesis which means looking at the best of the best kinds of signal processing and sound design suites (CDP, Kyma, Reaktor, Melodyne).

The company that's poised for option three would be Yamaha. Their hardware team could work with their subsidary, Steinberg, to create a product with tight DAW integration. And Yamaha is a known pioneer with the DX7 and VL1 so it’s not completely out of character for them to take a risk. They even have KARMA 3.0 licensed and ready to go for a new board and no hardware currently exists with dedicated controls for KARMA 3. Will Yamaha use their in-house talent to create a workstation capable of taking down the Kronos? It really just depends on if Yammy thinks there's a market for workstations.

This unfortunately is where we hit a major snag... to me, a workstation is a piece of kit that subsidizes the lack of power in a computer. But computers today are so powerful that a $3,000 dollar PC can handle far more than your $3k Kronos or similar machine. The time, money and energy that would go into creating a brand new piece of hardware with it's own dedicated operating system would result in a product with a hefty price tag. It makes a lot more sense for a developer to just create software for existing operating systems.
Then there aren't a lot of technically minded performers out there who need a sophisticated production environment. Something like the GrandStage makes a lot more sense as a bread n’ butter preset machine for the gigging musician than a full on workstation powerhouse. Likewise the technically minded producer doesn't need all that performance control necessary for the stage musician.
That leaves us with a small elite class of producer performers a la Daft Punk and the like who would actually use the capabilities of such an instrument.

So unless someone comes up with something super innovative like a working Open Labs Neko, then I’m afraid there is just no mass market for a new workstation.

[GregC]

[rmgatl]

I've wondered at what point you almost have to do a Kronos 3 just to avoid an end of life situation with the current design from a sustaining/production standpoint.

I guess the last update was late 2014.

I would hate to drop $3500 just before a next gen release. Is the general consensus that Korg will just keep the current product, drag out end of life as much as possible and then exit, end of story?

[GregC]

[NormC]

[rmgatl]

[GregC]

[kronoSphere]

thankfully, yes, this forum successfully overcomes many of Korg's lacks regarding the follow-up of the needs and desires of its customers
_________________
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https://www.lairdeparis.fr

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

[GregC]

[19naia]

If Kronos sales have been profitable enough to lend a little money to R&D, there is no reason to not push the frontier farther out.

I can imagine Korg possibly starting a DAW system to match or supercede Kronos. Doing away with full system hardware production.
People go to kronos with the all-in-one idea and that is the right line of thinking but the Kronos hardware just isn’t as all powerful as needed for all-in-one.

But with the DAW route, maybe i am over estimating. Because it seems even with Kronos or next generation on DAW, there needs to be a worthy keyboard controller which is no problem for Korg to make with all the sliders, knobs and pads.

But then there is also the rear side of kronos with all the inputs and outputs.
indv/1-4, Input 1 & 2, USB Ax2, USB-B, midi in-thru-out, SPDIF, and all.
Now this really puts the all-in-one value into perspective. The audio and midi interface you lose by going to Kronos DAW, is a huge comparative cost to replace with a separate interface unit. And one to match Kronos rear side utility is not cheap.

So the cost of DAW, the controller board and then the line interface for the computer, it all gets to be a real cost. Most people have a computer already and kronos just joins in bringing a whole lot of utility and value to the studio setup.

I don’t see a new and improved kronos/flagship workstation going out of production unless they just aren’t selling enough to carry their weight in the company or the company is having a hard time designing a stable system to evolve Kronos to the next level.

Users also determine if it evolves or fades away in the end, and i as a user cannot imagine any setup that gives me more value for my money than Kronos with all-in-one utility from every side of a computerized studio.

I like having kronos so much that i cannot imagine where i would go from the point that Kronos faded away rather than evolved to the next generation.
Even if no real evolution, as long as it stayed in production in its current form.

[GregC]

[rmgatl]

No offense to Kronos fans but I think we'll all be gigging with ipads and a controller keyboard or two at some point. The quality of sounds, computing power/$ and weight savings favor this shift.
I/O considerations plus OS reset risk playing live seem to be the roadblocks.
I'm trying to imagine a live music oriented ipad docking station - mechanically better I/O for midi and audio seems simple.
Easiest risk management is redundancy...two ipads or minis at $300 each or less? Docking station uses both screens for control interface, one drives audio but other one picks up in the event of software fault. Who knows.
I love hw and still get a kick out of my mint condition M1...can't believe what they still sell for.
Korg might as well sell the Kronos as-is until they can't anymore.

[Gunnar]

I suspect the next Kronos will be a hardware iteration of the current one with minor software tweaks. The software platform _works_, and judging from the posts that have appeared about hardware mods, both with leds and AT and also replacing the entire CPU, it seems that Korg could do this when they see the need. And as pointed out, moving to a newer motherboard and CPU makes sense because those will have a longer supply life than the current older generation (plus adding more computing power which may add some performance enhancements, like more polyphony)

That might include a few more engines and it will contain the current SEQ, because that one is simply too useful for playback and local editing. If we were really lucky, we'll get a piano roll.

What I don't see as realistic is a full DAW style workstation. Reason being that this would be a huge software effort for Korg, we're talking 100s of man years, and it simply would pay off. Consider the Venn diagram of the musicians looking for a capable multi-purpose synth (think Montage, Kronos, Nord Stage) and overlap that with the people that are looking for a high-end fully capable and flexible DAW environment with large screen and all that. Then overlap that with the group that actually wants those two to be in the same package. There are some of those, but I believe that overlapping region in the center is pretty small, hence it will never happen.

I love my Kronos and mine is 2 years now. I expect it to last ME another five, and I _hope_ it will last ME another ten. Even if Korg end-of-lifes the Kronos next year, they will have to have stocked up on service parts to last another few years, so even in the event of hardware failure, we should be good for some time.
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Gear: Korg Kronos 2 73, Arturia Microbrute & MiniBrute 2, Moog Mother-32, Ibanez RG320DXFM Guitar, ESP Viper 254FM Bass, Blackstar HT-1
Software: Reaper, EZ Drummer
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[GregC]

[GregC]