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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:29 pm Post subject: Possible new Krome user - questions |
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I currently have a Roland BK7M backing module and I'm looking at either a workstation or arranger to couple to it. Initially I had though only of arrangers, but it has been suggested to me that a better combo would be a workstations.
So the hunt has begun.
How does the Krome compare to Roland's FA-x series? I've seen posts in other forums claiming that the Krome is a rumpler vice full synth. I don't actually know what that means. And would it matter?
One of the things I noticed between the two is that there is a slew of free to download add-ons to the Roland and not much for the Krome. Or am I just not looking in the right place?
I am very much an amateur and I mostly just twiddle around on the organ. I think twiddling with a workstation could be much fun. I'm 74 and retired so I have lots of time on my hands to learn and hopefully improve my playing skills.
thanks _________________ Lloyd |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm leaning towards the Krome because the BK7M can provide me plenty of things Roland and the Krome would give me some new/different things.
One thing I would like to be able to do is have a chord progression sequence of a song that I could then use to have the BK7M play while I use 2 hands to do other things. Is that doable? Based on watching a slew of YouTube videos it seems it would be.
thanks _________________ Lloyd |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I'll try to clear a few things up. I'm not the ultimate Krome expert, but I use mine for composition and live performances.
The BK7M is basically an arranger, in a desktop format (which means that it doesn't have its own keyboard). It plays backing - either recorded material or synthesising new sounds. This means that buying an arranger to pair with it would be kind of pointless.
If you just want to buy a synth for soloing along with the the BK7M, you could certainly get an arranger or a workstation, but you might do better with a dedicated, purpose-built synth. Something like, for example, a Blofeld keyboard, or even a Roland Gaia.
That said, the Krome is more than capable of acting that part. It has the Program mode, which makes it basically a single-voiced synth (and a pretty decent one).
First point: it is a "rompler" (not rumpler) which means that it stores samples and uses those as the foundation of its sound. This is true. However, you can rearrange its internal synthesis in a range of powerful, complex ways so that while it is technically a rompler, it is actually more sonically flexible than many dedicated synths. So the fact that is a rompler doesn't matter, and won't stop you making great music.
Second point: Check out kromeheaven online. You can download lots of things (some free, some not). Honestly, if you wrap your head around the Krome's sound generation system, you'd hardly need to.
Third point: You can absolutely just twiddle around on the great sounds of the Krome, or you can go a lot deeper and do complete compositions on it. As in, album-ready, fully-sequenced performances that you can tweak in every particular. The Krome offers a pianoroll interface, whereas the FA-x series from Roland is more set up for talking to your computer for composition. In my arrogant opinion, this is where Roland fell down.
On your second post: I believe what you describe is doable. It would depend on the exact configuration and of course sutiable cabling between them (probably just a single MIDI cable).
I didn't think, when I bought my Krome, that I really needed it. I just got a great deal (it was a demo model, but in perfect shape), and it has become one of my favourite pieces of gear. I'm trying not to sound like a fanboy, and concentrate on what it really does - but I will say that you probably wouldn't regret it.
Don't know where you are in the world, but if you were near me I'd cheerfully show up and hand you some pointers. |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the feedback and opinions, appreciated.
I think it would only need one midi cable, out from the Krome to in on the BK since the BK would actually just be responding to whatever I wanted the Krome to control, like keystrokes. In fact, I can't think of a reason I would want the BK to send anything but audio to the Krome and then on to an amp, in this case the Lowrey organ.
I was more concerned about making a chord progression for a song on the Krome that I could integrate and have just the BK respond to that and send the audio of the chord. Then I could play the melody and/or counter melody and just ignore chording as I play. And of course, I could get some sounds from the BK to the full 61 keys.
If I'm understanding correctly, the Krome can't record an audio track as a sample. Hope that makes sense.
As to where I am, well I'm in deep southern and very rural Illinois about 350 miles from Chicago. One of the downsides is that no local dealers for Korg, a minimalistic one for Roland and one a little better for Yamaha. So putting my hands on either the FA-x or Korg stuff just isn't practical. _________________ Lloyd |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that you can send audio through the Krome (although maybe you can send it through the BK from the Krome).
Alternatively, you could use a small personal mixer. They're cheap.
You can definitely record a MIDI chord progression on the Krome. That's a piece of cake (you'll be looking for Sequencer mode, by the way), and you don't even have to have the Krome create the sound - you can just set the relevant channels to external-only. |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a bunch!
After watching quite a few more videos, I think that for me to create a complete rhythmic style, I would need to do it in sequencer track by track, right? _________________ Lloyd |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about rhythmic styles in the BK. That's not a device with which I'm hugely familiar.
The Krome doesn't have styles. The Krome allows you to compose pieces. At most, the Krome will give you a combination, in which you have a couple of arpeggiation and drum options.
If you're looking for another style-driven device, you would want another arranger (but why? The BK is already an arranger). However, if you want to record sending chords to the BK from the Krome, that should only be on one MIDI channel - so only send it on one, and then you can program all the other channels any way you like.
If you're looking for a device that is really all about letting you set up your own arranger patterns from the ground up, the best that I'm aware of is actually from Casio.
I know, I know, Casio haters can have their fifteen minutes of hysterical laughter/rabid ranting...
.... laughter/ranting done? Good. Now on to more serious business.
The MZ-X500 from Casio lets you create a series of patterns that you can switch between, transpose on the fly, while soloing over them. It's an arranger designed for self-programming. It inherits a lot of this function from the XW-P1 as well. If that is what you want, then I would look there.
If what you want is something that will let you program a complete song, then a workstation is your go-to answer.
So the question is really precisely what you hope to achieve. |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
The BK7M is an arranger, but it is not very good at on the fly changes. The most used way for it is to create a playlist and play from it, only sending keyboard strokes to it. Accordionists that have tried it pretty much love it. But to modify/create a style, it is horrible to deal with. The user interface is anything but user friendly!
So let's come back full circle and forget about the BK for a bit. I think I see the differences between the workstation vice arranger. I could get a keyboard arranger, like the PA series, and twiddle with styles and some sound modification. Of course the sound changes are less than what a workstation would offer.
With a workstation I could do everything except style arrangements. Is there a case to be made for having both? And if so, how do you move something created on the Krome to a PA? _________________ Lloyd |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1012
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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In a PA:-
You can customise the sounds
You can change the instruments in a Style and each instrument can be customised
You can record what you want in the PA and overdub it.
You can add a guitar into your recording
You can add vocals into your recording.
You can save the recording and call upon it to either play along or use it as backing.
See the Korg Video Manual tutorials for both a PA and a Krome _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: |
If you're looking for a device that is really all about letting you set up your own arranger patterns from the ground up, the best that I'm aware of is actually from Casio.
I know, I know, Casio haters can have their fifteen minutes of hysterical laughter/rabid ranting...
.... laughter/ranting done? Good. Now on to more serious business.
The MZ-X500 from Casio lets you create a series of patterns that you can switch between, transpose on the fly, while soloing over them. It's an arranger designed for self-programming. It inherits a lot of this function from the XW-P1 as well. If that is what you want, then I would look there.
If what you want is something that will let you program a complete song, then a workstation is your go-to answer.
So the question is really precisely what you hope to achieve. |
Thanks for that info. I researched the Casio MZ-X500 and decided to take it out for a spin. Ordered from a place that allows return within 30 day if I don’t like it. But the YouTube videos, those that didn’t just suck, looked pretty good.
As to what I want to achieve, well mostly just a new tech toy to play around with. I’m far from an accomplished musician and more twiddling on the organ, and the Casio looks to give me plenty to twiddle with.
Assuming it works as well as I think it will I’ll sell the BK7M. We’ll see going forward. _________________ Lloyd |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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OK, great! I like that you picked a direction and took the plunge.
The MZ-X500 is a pretty serious little monster. It's a development on the XW-P1 that I used to have. Nothing wrong with the XW-P1 either - I really liked it, I just donated it to a school because all its functions were substantially replicated by other tools that I already had.
What you're going to want to look for is creating user patterns, and switching between them on the pattern buttons just over the keyboard. You can use them just like an arranger, flipping between them and transposing and so on, soloing over them. That's where your performance interface sits. |
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dfahrner Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 571 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I find that all the arrangers I've used (BK-7m, MZ-X500, various Korgs, etc.) are OK if you just use presets (though music played by any arranger, including Yamaha's top-of-the-line Genos, sounds "canned" to me after a few minutes)...if you want to do anything else, like make your own styles, it's difficult - you have to really dig into the manual, figure out the operating system, just what is possible, etc....the most realistic, natural-sounding "auto accompaniment" I've used is KARMA on the Kronos, because it can vary what it plays back depending on all kind of inputs; but talk about difficult to program...
The MZ-X500 sounds good, but has some real limitations (like modulation routings) when it comes to programming your own voices, and I don't think it's any easier to use / program than the BK-7m.....the Krome sounds better, and has a lot of similarities to the top-of-the-line Kronos in terms of sample-based voice architecture...a Krome paired with your BK-7m gives you a lot more options, just resign yourself to lots of manual diving...
df |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | OK, great! I like that you picked a direction and took the plunge.
The MZ-X500 is a pretty serious little monster. It's a development on the XW-P1 that I used to have. Nothing wrong with the XW-P1 either - I really liked it, I just donated it to a school because all its functions were substantially replicated by other tools that I already had.
What you're going to want to look for is creating user patterns, and switching between them on the pattern buttons just over the keyboard. You can use them just like an arranger, flipping between them and transposing and so on, soloing over them. That's where your performance interface sits. |
I've been watching some of the YouTube videos, especially some of the better ones with english subtitles. I'm impressed! I love those pads, that was what had me looking at the Roland FA-0x series workstations.
It should be here Friday.
Thanks for making me look at it. _________________ Lloyd |
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lparsons21
Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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dfahrner wrote: |
The MZ-X500 sounds good, but has some real limitations (like modulation routings) when it comes to programming your own voices, and I don't think it's any easier to use / program than the BK-7m.....the Krome sounds better, and has a lot of similarities to the top-of-the-line Kronos in terms of sample-based voice architecture...a Krome paired with your BK-7m gives you a lot more options, just resign yourself to lots of manual diving...
df |
The problem with the BK7M beyond just using it is the user controls. Just a royal PITA to do much with it in the way of creating something new. Yes, it can be done, no it isn't at all intuitive or pleasant.
But did I mention I like to twiddle??
I've got an offer made on a used Krome 61 key because it fascinates me and I'd love to delve into it. Being retired time can be a real enemy, too easy to lean back in the recliner and watch yet another rerun of some show I've seen more than once. OR I can do some things just because! And I think I'll enjoy fiddling with the Krome and MZ-X500 will be a lot of fun. I might even learn something.
But one question. Assume I create something wonderful on the Krome and want to bring that over to the MZ-X500. Midi would be easy but would be missing the sound, so just how do you take it over? As audio for a play along? Or what?
No USB outpout on the Krome, no SD card on the MZ and the only file format that seems common is SMF. _________________ Lloyd |
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dfahrner Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 571 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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You can get SD-to-USB adapters, so that an SD card can be plugged into a USB port...I think both synths can read (at least some of) each other's data that way, although you might have use an intermediate computer...
df |
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