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Not Kronos: Devaluation of Music: It’s Worse Than You Think
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
I'm very glad this thread was started.

Here in Toronto we have a radio station called Q107. It's mainly a classic rock station but at times it feels like the playlist is about 50 songs long. They play the same songs over and over ad nauseum. The same 4 Zepillin songs, the same 4 Tom Petty's etc. No Genesis from before Duke. Did you know the band Yes only had one song? According to the radio they did.

The article mention continuity. On this station there is none at all. Fleetwood Mac's Dreams would follow Metallica's Enter Sandman. It's almost impossible to get any new music that fit into the rock genre here. Mind you if it's Pop or Hip Hop, you can get all of it. now I have no problem with that but I think this should apply to all genres of music.

I also have a hard time with the "dumbing down" of music. Ask yourself this. If Pink Floyd came out today, would they be able to survive? I tend to think not. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a big prog rock fan.
The only way I find out about any new stuff is by diligently searching for it. I remember recently playing some for a friend's teenage son and they simply didn't know what to make of it. He looked board after about 30 seconds because they hadn't thrown a few hooks at him yet. Sad but true.

As for making money out of music. good freaking luck. Pirating has always existed but now it's at the point where for a lot of people, it's the accepted norm. My brother hasn't paid for music or movies for years. But then he also couldn't care less about the artists and liner notes.

Sorry for the rant. It's just that these things really bug me.


I am in your demographic, brother.

Lets analyze WTH is going on some. That station is owned by a mega media corp named Corus
https://assets.corusent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/05053033/corus_2018q2_shareholdersreport.pdf

Corus is a highly leveraged co. Their primary assets are intangibles and goodwill.

Thats a LOL for me.

So that entity is turning the dial on Q107. Or , in reality, not turning it.

Its on automatic pilot because thats the cheapest way out for a highly leveraged
co with a ton of bank debt.

This is the way of the media world for a decade . A consolidation where these
corporate entity types pull the strings on what you listen to. Or what you did listen to.

Just in case, anyone is interested in the root cause of WTF is going on.

Looks like quantity beats up quality, again.

Its corporate dumbing down. Thats probably the worse type of dumb down.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's going to take a lot before anything really changes. The bottom line rules and since it's money making the decisions, we're going to get whatever sells the most for the least.
I did a quick google search and what I've found was somewhat surprising although I didn't search all that hard. Just about as long as it took to have a quick late lunch. What I did find was that it seems a lot of college aged guys prefer the music of our eras as opposed to the pre-processed pop of today.
I don't know how true that is but who knows really.
I for one can't tell one female pop star from another but that's hardly surprising seeing as I don't listen to that kind of music except in various stores when I've been dragged out shopping with my wife. Shoe stores especially.
I'm just glad that I can and do find new music that works for me, makes me think and is played well.
Of course we can always tune to internet radio as well.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of music that gets respect in later years started out very counterculture.

I think that we're in an ostensible drought, but the seeds of the next artistic outbreak are germinating right now beneath the surface.

The existence and activities of the big musical publishers, labels and assorted middlemen is largely orthogonal to these facts.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
A lot of music that gets respect in later years started out very counterculture.

I think that we're in an ostensible drought, but the seeds of the next artistic outbreak are germinating right now beneath the surface.

The existence and activities of the big musical publishers, labels and assorted middlemen is largely orthogonal to these facts.


we have been thru comparable obstacles in the 60's

Its going to take a cultural revolution.

all those young voices have to get together , rise up , in order to be heard.

IOW, its not going to happen simply playing on laptops and iPads and whatever the latest tech device, and loading stuff on music sites, etc.

Something more tangible has to take place for any significant change.
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DeltaJockey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
DeltaJockey wrote:
Quote:
This is US centric, but PBS did an excellent series on music production starting
with the 50's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQrwAnw3wo&t=270s


Greg, I tried to view this video. Unfortunately it's region locked due to copyright. I watched a trailer though, and I recognised it, so I think it aired locally on one one our TV networks a year or so back.
I didn't get the impression it was completely US centric, with so many British artists too. I think we all were quite heavily influenced by many of the British bands in those days along with US artists.

Chris


Hi Chris, I was referring to PBS in my US centric remark. You are correct, in that the program content refers to British artists.

But since I haven't seen the entire series, I don't know how well balanced it is.

Just my effort to show that I think every production should be global in scope.
I think highly of PBS.

about PBS: The Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) is an American public broadcaster and television program distributor. It is a non-profit organization and is the most prominent provider of government-funded educational television programming to public television stations in the United States


I understand, I do know PBS. Watched it a tiny bit in the past when in the US. We have equivalent public broadcasters here in Oz.


.....wow the topic has hotted up a little while I was away Smile
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="DeltaJockey"]
GregC wrote:
DeltaJockey wrote:
Quote:
This is US centric, but PBS did an excellent series on music production starting
with the 50's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQrwAnw3wo&t=270s


Greg, I tried to view this video. Unfortunately it's region locked due to copyright. I watched a trailer though, and I recognised it, so I think it aired locally on one one our TV networks a year or so back.
I didn't get the impression it was completely US centric, with so many British artists too. I think we all were quite heavily influenced by many of the British bands in those days along with US artists.

Chris




.....wow the topic has hotted up a little while I was away Smile


us artists see a lot of crap on the business side. I personally have avoided the harsh side for several decades.

Just the same, I don't like any injustice/power trip and it brings out the rebel in me.
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runningman67
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when my fave bands would release an album every few years, a single every 6 months and I waited patiently.

Nowadays artists have to shove all their content out quick fire because they are quickly forgotten, or their image destroyed on social media and corporate moguls.

The throw away society includes music and musicians.

No more long intros, straight in, hello and goodbye.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

runningman67 wrote:
I remember when my fave bands would release an album every few years, a single every 6 months and I waited patiently.

Nowadays artists have to shove all their content out quick fire because they are quickly forgotten, or their image destroyed on social media and corporate moguls.

The throw away society includes music and musicians.

No more long intros, straight in, hello and goodbye.


Just an aside here. Way back when I was in high school I remember when the first Bic pens came out. Before then all pens were designed to take a replacement refill. The Bic was disposable. Shortly after came the Bic lighter. At the time I did smoke and had a Ronson butane lighter that was refillable. It even had 2 little compartments for spare flints. When I saw this cheap disposable lighter i thought how stupid this thing is. You can't refill it. What's the point here? The point was exactly that. They sold more lighters. And so our disposable lifestyle got kick started into motion.
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holdsg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding music education to young people:

I understand the point that the school systems in the US have pushed it out and never looked back.

At this very moment, I am exploring opening my own franchise School of Rock location. I wonder if you guys think that teaching kids to cover classic rock songs (and learn scales, theory, etc. "along the way") is a form of the dumb down?

Is it better, though, to encourage kids to have fun making music (versus the torture that is often compared to the classical form of music lessons), even if its dumbed down, that might help them appreciate music more in their lives?

It's an interesting thing I am thinking about today.
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Rich Z
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck, my first year of college I decided to take a music theory course. The "instructor's" ideas of teaching were not compatible with my ideas about learning. To give you an example, his plan for the final exam was to play small snippets from a long list of classical pieces and we would be tasked with correctly identifying them by ear. Then on top of my math "instructor" giving me a failing grade on my first test on theorems because, in his words, my answers were not WORD FOR WORD as in the textbook, I decided that I had better things to do with my life than attend college. I did not want to be forced to learn how to become an idiot that could only memorize but could not think in order to graduate.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holdsg wrote:
Regarding music education to young people:

I understand the point that the school systems in the US have pushed it out and never looked back.

At this very moment, I am exploring opening my own franchise School of Rock location. I wonder if you guys think that teaching kids to cover classic rock songs (and learn scales, theory, etc. "along the way") is a form of the dumb down?

Is it better, though, to encourage kids to have fun making music (versus the torture that is often compared to the classical form of music lessons), even if its dumbed down, that might help them appreciate music more in their lives?

It's an interesting thing I am thinking about today.


my wife is a teacher.

whatever you decide,its about getting thru and educating the parents first.
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arne v
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imho things has gotten more available than before, but artsist dont earn that much anymore.
Many artist now put their music out "for free" just to connect and make ppl listening to their tunes.
Take this guy. He has all his music on SC and spotify and doesnt earn a dime of SC (like many others) but his music is like nothing else Smile

https://soundcloud.com/alonmormusic

Your brain will be scrambled Razz
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I do as well but I'm only on Soundcloud. I've got about 57 songs there. I'd love to get paid, even if it's only a little but nowadays it's so easy to get music for free and it also seems to me that nowadays a LOT of people don't want to pay for music. It seems that their attitude is, "Well it's free on the radio so why should I pay to listen to it anywhere else?" Sad but true.

Remember Napster? I never used it and I have no problem at all buying music. In fact I'm one of the rare ones who buy cd's. A lot of them too. But long gone are the days when people would listen to a whole album. I used to love; well I still do actually; sitting and just listening to a whole album. I really liked the concept albums that told a story all the way through from the beginning to the end. People still make them but that's pretty much relegated
to the prog sector. I mean how many concept pop records are there? There may be a lot but I've yet to see any. Mind you, pop isn't something that I listen to.
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Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 accoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 2 cats!
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arne v wrote:
imho things has gotten more available than before, but artsist dont earn that much anymore.
Many artist now put their music out "for free" just to connect and make ppl listening to their tunes.
Take this guy. He has all his music on SC and spotify and doesnt earn a dime of SC (like many others) but his music is like nothing else Smile

https://soundcloud.com/alonmormusic

Your brain will be scrambled Razz


the music business is quite a mess. I emphasize ' business '. Love and appreciate the music. Always will.

I totally have zero expectation on any funds finding me. It has zero effect on my creativity. Call me idealistic.

I thinks its good to compartmentalize. Music is a beautiful art form. Its striving to grow in a world that is overly stressed. The ' world ' makes it difficult but I accept that as part of the overall game.

Imperfect Universe.
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