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Korg Kronos Aftertouch Issue?
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degaffman



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Mobile, AL USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:06 am    Post subject: Korg Kronos Aftertouch Issue? Reply with quote

I just purchased a refurb Kronos 88 platinum from Sweetwater. When it arrived several keys were stuck - I had to loosen the keybed screws on the bottom of the keyboard and press it back a little so free the keys. Everything was great for a day while I was checking out keyboard instruments, but when I started solo instruments and leads using aftertouch I found it extremely difficult to bring it in.

I set the aftertouch curve to 5 (most sensitive) and calibrated the sensitiviy, which helped slightly. During the aftertouch calibration, I had to press very hard on the keys to even see aftertouch start to register. It actually hurts my fingers if I'm playing on finger tips. I replicated how hard I have to press down on my Kronos on a smaill shipping scale I own - it's about 6 lbs of pressure.

This is not typical of a Kronos 8 is it? Could sliding the keyboard back just a bit caused an issue there? Anyone else have this problem and a simple solution? I sure don't want to send the Kronos back, but aftertouch is something I really using.

Thanks!
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Synthee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you describe the aftertouch it sounds exactly like on my Kronos 2, 88.
Even when calibrated lightest possible its a very hard aftertouch.
When I use the aftertoch I even have to press my knees under Kronos to counterpressure to avoid the desk it stands on to break.
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Gunnar
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos Aftertouch Issue? Reply with quote

degaffman wrote:
I replicated how hard I have to press down on my Kronos on a smaill shipping scale I own - it's about 6 lbs of pressure.


Yeah, this sounds about right.. I hadn't thought of using a scale, but I measured myself with a kitchen scale, and a very rough comparison puts me in the 3kg range which is close enough to your 6lbs.

Mine is a K2 73 the aftertouch has always been really tough, it has been brought up on the forum here in the past as well.
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Synthee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos Aftertouch Issue? Reply with quote

Gunnar wrote:
degaffman wrote:
I replicated how hard I have to press down on my Kronos on a smaill shipping scale I own - it's about 6 lbs of pressure.


Yeah, this sounds about right.. I hadn't thought of using a scale, but I measured myself with a kitchen scale, and a very rough comparison puts me in the 3kg range which is close enough to your 6lbs.

Mine is a K2 73 the aftertouch has always been really tough, it has been brought up on the forum here in the past as well.


3 Kg, thats a lot of weight. Shocked

I never played the Kronos 61 with semi weighted keys, I wonder if it is the same on that keyboard or is it just the RH3 keybed that has this problem?
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos Aftertouch Issue? Reply with quote

degaffman wrote:
using aftertouch I found it extremely difficult to bring it in.

Anyone else have this problem and a simple solution? I sure don't want to send the Kronos back, but aftertouch is something I really using.

Hi there,

This is a common issue with the Kronos with weighted keyboards. There is no link between this and moving the keyboard a bit to free keys from touching the front "bumper".

I designed a solution for this but it involves a DIY mod (see my sig for more details), which would of course void your warranty. Maybe you could do it next year once it expires, supposing you have decent knowledge/experience in electronics.
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apex
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that helps is to change the paramter that is attached to the after touch. Make it where it requires less before it kicks in. For some reason at one point (this was a while ago when I was dealing with this and helping others concerning it).... But it seemed like the default patch settings just took alot of after touch to trigger it. So that coupled with the Kronos itself (keys and after touch mechanism) it made it very difficult.
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degaffman



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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Location: Mobile, AL USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did perform the aftertouch calibration - it requires you press down until an acceptable top end of the range is defined - but you don't have any control over the minimum pressure. I have to put 6 lbs of force on the keyboard before a minimum aftertouch even starts to register on the calbration screen.

It's hard to believe the Kronos would be intentionally designed this way. Are pretty much all the Kronos 88's this way (6 lbs pressure) or are some easier than others to bring in the aftertouch? I'm going to talk with Korg and see if this is the norm - Sweetwater said they would have the keyboard repaired if it's defective or I could return the keyboard (glad I purchased from them).

Thanks to everyone for all the help!
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voip
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The aftertouch calibration is a two point calibration, requiring first the minimum pressure to be applied (bargraph is pale blue), letting go of the key and then applying the maximum wanted pressure (bargraph is dark blue). The bargraph indicator doesn't need to go to the hard right of the calibration box for the latter setting, just to the point where you're comfortable with it, then tap the "Done" box.

Don't forget to write the Global setting, else it won't be saved.

After the calibration is done, there is the Aftertouch curve setting, selectable from the Global Basic page. The default setting is 3, but values of 4 or 5 will allow a greater Aftertouch effect at the low pressure end of the scale, whereas settings of 1 or 2 require stronger pressure before aftertouch becomes more noticeable. Settings of 6 to 7 result in a stepped pressure-response relationship, whilst 8 generates random aftertouch effects, so it's not a simple progressive change from one setting value to the next.

.


Last edited by voip on Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:29 am; edited 3 times in total
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned earlier, it seems to be a rather common problem. Doing a search here and elsewhere online will bring you similar comments from other people.

I've analyzed the whole AT subsystem long enough in my own K2 to figure out a solution. On one hand, you have a felt strip stopping the hammers a fraction of a millimeter before the key bottoms start to push on the AT resistive material. This design is therefore correct. I suspect that with years of use and normal wear on the felt strip, the AT gradually becomes easier.

On the other hand, the dedicated twin op-amp AT circuit seems to have been initially designed for a different type of FSR. Maybe they had no choice to switch to a different FSR component at some point in time. IMHO the main problem is actually the AT software calibration component, with which you have very little control. Regardless if you try to set it at its minimum interaction, it basically changes whatever hardware calibration it detects into something else (a biased averaged picture of what is at its input). Since I doubt that Korg will update the AT software part, I decided to fix it myself.
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degaffman



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Mobile, AL USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Since I doubt that Korg will update the AT software part, I decided to fix it myself.


Can you provide more details on your modification? It's quite impressive but I wouldn't know where to start by watching the video. You said you did testing did before your purchased the hardware for your modification, how was that performed? And what hardware did you purchase, and where was it inserted it within the circuitry? I've done a bit of soldering and have opened up quite a few keyboards to address issues, but nothing like your mod. Maybe I could have a keyboard tech do it locally?
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NormC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find if you properly calibrate it and adjust your curves to your playing preference it works fine. Most people do not calibrate it correctly. Follow voip's instructions.
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Synthee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
The aftertouch calibration is a two point calibration, requiring first the minimum pressure to be applied (bargraph is pale blue), letting go of the key and then applying the maximum wanted pressure (bargraph is dark blue). The bargraph indicator doesn't need to go to the hard right of the calibration box for the latter setting, just to the point where you're comfortable with it, then tap the "Done" box.

It used to be a two point calibration, but not in the latest OS.
Now its only one pressure and if you stop pressing when the bar turns dark blue, and letting you press Done, then it is on the lightest aftertouch, but its still to hard for comfort, at least on my Kronos 2 88.

The old text "Set min/max.." is still in the menu though, Korg missed to change it.
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voip
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a two point calibration on OS 3.1.2. I tried a "hard pressure" calibration and then a "soft pressure" one, and the aftertouch responded as expected in both cases. It may be useful to have something conected to the Kronos MIDI out that indicates the presence of MIDI traffic. It may then be possible to see a midi data blip when a note is played, followed by a stream of MIDI traffic when the pressure on the key puts it in the aftertouch zone.
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Synthee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
It's a two point calibration on OS 3.1.2. I tried a "hard pressure" calibration and then a "soft pressure" one, and the aftertouch responded as expected in both cases. It may be useful to have something conected to the Kronos MIDI out that indicates the presence of MIDI traffic. It may then be possible to see a midi data blip when a note is played, followed by a stream of MIDI traffic when the pressure on the key puts it in the aftertouch zone.

No, they changed it. You can see that in the manual at page 806/807.
Its not Min/Max like before. You just press once and the blue bar gets longer the harder you press.
But even if you stop just when the bar turns blue, its very hard on my Kronos, even with the after touch scale set on 5.
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degaffman



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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Location: Mobile, AL USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a moot point whether it's one or two. Mine is one point - it says press done when finished and shows a bar that detects aftertouch. But I have to put 6+ lbs of pressure on the key before it even starts detecting any aftertouch, and then I have to add pressure until the bar is a 3rd or the bar max for it to accept the calibration. If it was 2 point, I bet I'd still have to put that 6 lbs pressure on the keyboard to have it first detected.

I called Korg about this and they told me I'd need to email tech support and I did that Tuesday. I'm waiting to hear back from them as to whether they would consider my Kronos aftertouch defective or not.
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