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MIDI Issues with Cubase & Kronos
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:23 am    Post subject: MIDI Issues with Cubase & Kronos Reply with quote

I recently switched over (from Sonar) to using Cubase, and overall it has gone well.

But tonight Cubase started telling me "There are currently no MIDI In ports for the program." And now I can't find my MIDI ports for the Kronos. Usually I have an option to select Kronos 1 Sound (or something like that), but it's no longer in the list. I've tried re-installing the Korg USB driver.

So I'm now getting MIDI into/out of the Kronos via the MIDI ports rather than USB. But this means I can't use SoundQuest (aka MIDIquest) to access the Kronos settings.

After showing the "no MIDI In ports" message it tells me to click OK to select the MIDI ports, but then does not actually give me that option.

I've looked at Studio/Studio Setup/MIDI Port Setup to see if the port might be visible there, but it's not. I've also tried clicking the Reset button, which is supposed to show all MIDI ports, but the Kronos port still doesn't show up.

I've also tried rebooting...both with the Kronos on and also with Kronos off. Nothing.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have since tried removing the Kronos VSTi (MIDIquest) from the Cubase rack. After doing this and then re-starting Cubase, I no longer get the error message. So apparently when Cubase was telling me there are no MIDI In ports for "this program", it was referring to the MIDIquest Kronos VSTi, not Cubase.

So unless I'm mistaken, the issue is that the Kronos USB driver is not functioning. But since I've already tried re-installing it I'm at a bit of a loss for what to do next.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I do not use the Kronos VSTi, but heavily rely on the Kronos USB driver in Both Cubase 9.5 and Cantabile 3.5 (live VST host). It is working fine on both of my systems (studio and live computers) in both programs.

If I were you, I would start at first principles and check that the driver can be seen by Windows and that a program like program like MIDIOX can access the Kronos USB driver and receive data.

If MIDIOX cannot see the driver, then there is a general problem that needs resolving before Cubase will see the Kronos.

So, try the MIDIOX test and report back.

HTH
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be something as simple as changing which port you're plugged into. Sometimes a USB port will simply stop recognizing the connection. I have no idea what causes it, but all you need to do is leave the Kronos and the computer on, and then unplug the USB A side and plug it into some other port on your tower. If it STILL doesn't work then try unplugging and reconnecting the USB B side that's inserted on the Kronos end. Try that last step a few times. I'd be surprised if that doesn't fix the problem.

Also once the Kronos is recognized, always leave the Kronos on while powering down your computer. And likewise always power the Kronos up before powering up your computer. That way the state of the system is always the same without any hotplugging going on.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIDIOX, which I had forgotten about, did not see the Kronos driver.

So next on the list was CharlesFerraro's suggestion of changing the MIDI port the Kronos is plugged into. And I'm very happy to say that this did the trick. MIDIOX then showed the port in its list (under Options/MIDI Devices).

A very handy and simple solution.

And I will be sure to follow CF's advice that Kronos should always be on first when booting up, and remain on while powering down the computer.

Thanks to both of you for your assistance.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS: I then started Cubase, and it ran normally...no messages about missing MIDI ports, and Kronos VSTi worked perfectly.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It ain't over 'till it's over.

I now get no sound from Kronos. I put some MIDI on a Cubase track and started it looping. The MIDI channel is correct, and I can see MIDI activity in Cubase. The track output is set to to Kronos 1 Sound; the track is not muted; no other track is soled; my speakers are on....no sound.

OK, let's try playing directly on the Kronos keyboard. No sound. I have a MIDI track set to receive from Kronos, and again, I can see the MIDI activity in Cubase, but no sound.

My audio interface is Fireface UFX. I called up Total Mix (their mixing software), and there is no movement on the meters. It's not sensing audio from Kronos. So it's apparently not a Cubase problem. I've checked the audio connections, thinking maybe I knocked something loose when I was moving MIDI cables around, but they are still plugged in.

I then hooked up the analog outs of the Kronos to the Fireface, and then I do get sound thru to my speakers... but I'd much prefer to use the digital outs.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the meters in the Kronos showing audio output? My guess is yes considering you're still getting audio from the analog outputs. Is the UFX set to receive S/P DIF and NOT ADAT? Are you running the unit at 48kHz 24bit? Is it's digital clock master or slave to the Kronos?
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The meters show audio output.

In the Fireface USB Settings panel, under Options, ADAT 2 Out is set to AES/SPDIF. AES Input is set to AES, not ADAT. These settings have always worked in the past.

The Kronos System Clock is set to S/P DIF rather than Internal. My understanding is that this makes Fireface the master and Kronos the slave.

However, in that Fireface USB Settings panel, under Input Status, AES shows No Lock, which tells me this is the issue. Kronos and Fireface are not syncing digitally.

Fireface USB Settings panel again: Under Clock Mode, the Sample Rate is 48000 Khz. Clock Source = Internal (so it should function as the master).

As an experiment I switched Clock Source to AES, and on the Kronos I changed System Clock to Internal. Still no digital audio from Kronos.

I think I have a spare cable. Worth a shot.

One thing, though...when I change Clock Source to AES, it still says Current Internal to the left of the box. So maybe I don't understand how to change to Clock Source. Anyway, I'd rather use the Fireface's clock. They make a big point of how stable it is.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah definitely use the Fireface's clock. Seems like your settings are all correct... and it's worked in the past. So you have two toslink cables right? One running to the Kronos' S/P DIF input that's sending a clock source and another one running from the Kronos S/P DIF out back to the Fireface, correct? The Kronos wouldn't sound at all if you have it's clock set to external and the S/P DIF in cable were broken. Instead a warning sign would pop up that just says "clock" I think so you know that cable is good. Why not try unplugging that input cable and use it to send audio from the S/P DIF output to the Fireface instead, (with the Kronos' clock set to internal and the Fireface's clock to external). If that works then it's reasonable to assume the original S/P DIF out cable was broken. Did you try jiggling it? That can surprisingly work sometimes.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, two cables. I guess they're both toslink, because they fit into the S/P DIF ports (jacks?) on the back of the Kronos. Toslink is aka Lightpipe IIRC.

The cables interface between Kronos and the ADAT 2 connections on the Fireface. I tried unplugging the cable going from Fireface ADAT 2 Out to Kronos S/P DIF in, and immediately saw "Clock Error!" flashing at the top of Kronos' screen.

Shouldn't Fireface USB Settings/Input Status/AES show as something other than No Lock? It seems to me that it has previously, but I could be wrong.

I tried jiggling each connection, but still no audio.

I haven't gotten around to trying that spare cable yet...it's in a closet, in a box with a zillion other cables. At least I have them all in separate plastic bags so they're not a mess to look through. I guess I'll try that next.

This is going to turn out to be something really simple, and I'm going to feel like an idiot for the next year.
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the spare toslink cable, and subbed it in for the one running from Kronos Out to Fireface ADAT 2 In. Still no digital audio.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm so even switching out the cable didn't work... And you're sure you're running the UFX at 24bit? Even though you should still get audio regardless... All your faders are up and everything? Or the ones that matter at least? There's a chance you could've reduced the channels of the UFX so the S/P DIF in isn't even available and it's only using analog inputs. It's a function that helps the UFX save processing power and it will default to that when running at 192kHz. Other than that I'm out of ideas.

Try turning it off and back on again lol
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WVought
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far as I know, the Fireface doesn't do 16 bit. I searched the manual for that term, and nothing. It's 24 bit.

Faders are up.

I've tried the off/on thingy.

One of these days I'm going to switch everything on and it will magically start working properly. "Till then it's Analogville for me.

Thank you for sticking with me on this for as long as you did. And yes, I'm out of ideas too.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WVought wrote:
MIDIOX, which I had forgotten about, did not see the Kronos driver.

So next on the list was CharlesFerraro's suggestion of changing the MIDI port the Kronos is plugged into. And I'm very happy to say that this did the trick. MIDIOX then showed the port in its list (under Options/MIDI Devices).

A very handy and simple solution.

And I will be sure to follow CF's advice that Kronos should always be on first when booting up, and remain on while powering down the computer.

Thanks to both of you for your assistance.


It's always worth checking MIDI issues at low level if you can. If MIDIOX cannot see something there is usually a problem.

In terms if the USB issue, a handy utility is USBOblivion which will remove all enumerated drivers not in use.
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