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Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . ..
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playboy354



Joined: 05 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

Since Kronos is basically a computer, is there anyway to swap out CPU , motherboards , etc like a PC to upgrade it to state of the art technology?

We need 64bit among other things and I doubt if Korg is gonna do anymore versions or updates.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

playboy354 wrote:
Since Kronos is basically a computer, is there anyway to swap out CPU , motherboards , etc like a PC to upgrade it to state of the art technology?

We need 64bit among other things and I doubt if Korg is gonna do anymore versions or updates.


Korg relies on basic computer components for Kronos, true. But that alone does not make it 'basically a computer'

The components are tied to the OS and Linux kernel and 32 bit programming. Software programming makes the K unique.

The answer to your question is No. If it was possible to simply emulate with better components, it would have been tried 7 yrs ago. Maybe it was 'tried ' but I am unaware to proven successful results. Assertions, yes. I have seen that.
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

playboy354 wrote:
Since Kronos is basically a computer, is there anyway to swap out CPU , motherboards , etc like a PC to upgrade it to state of the art technology?

We need 64bit among other things and I doubt if Korg is gonna do anymore versions or updates.


https://marcan.st/2016/06/hacking-and-upgrading-the-korg-kronos/
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
playboy354 wrote:
Since Kronos is basically a computer, is there anyway to swap out CPU , motherboards , etc like a PC to upgrade it to state of the art technology?

We need 64bit among other things and I doubt if Korg is gonna do anymore versions or updates.


https://marcan.st/2016/06/hacking-and-upgrading-the-korg-kronos/


I am aware. its an ambitious project . See the disclaimer:

"Word of warning

If you attempt to do any of this to your Kronos and mess it up, that’s your fault, not mine. Do not follow any of these steps if you don’t have at least a reasonable knowledge of Linux administration. Back up your SSD contents first. I am not responsible if your Kronos stops working, catches fire, starts making dubstep, or transforms into a Roland.

In writing this post, I assume you at least know what a kernel is, how to use standard Linux command-line tools, and what busybox is and how to use it to replace missing system tools."
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured you were, Greg. Was intended for the OP, which is why I passed it along without qualification since there's an "at your own risk" disclaimer right on the tin.

I've got three decades of professional software development behind me, but I'm a Microsoft guy and have no desire to learn Linux just to hack a perfectly good synth.

That said, if he's a Penguin and brave enough to risk the price of a small car, it is in essence a Linux computer with a custom kernel, so in theory many of the mods (except the conversion to 64 bit) are possible.

Of course, as Yogi Berra famously said, the difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there's no difference.
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Studio B: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 44 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH | Kronos 88
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
I figured you were, Greg. Was intended for the OP, which is why I passed it along without qualification since there's an "at your own risk" disclaimer right on the tin.

I've got three decades of professional software development behind me, but I'm a Microsoft guy and have no desire to learn Linux just to hack a perfectly good synth.

That said, if he's a Penguin and brave enough to risk the price of a small car, it is in essence a Linux computer with a custom kernel, so in theory many of the mods (except the conversion to 64 bit) are possible.

Of course, as Yogi Berra famously said, the difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there's no difference.


I am not technical but did work ( 3 yrs) for a software tools software co where Linux was a big factor.

Korg has not, for obvious competitve reasons, not articulated the structure that was hatched some 10 years ago.

I also think i, in interest of time and cost, it better to be practical. Experiments are a good thing, but until they get repeated 100 times( pick a #) with user valid success its not a done deal for the everyday consumer(IMO).

What we mostly have here is the everyday consumer, some with good IT knowledge or musicians buying a Kronos.
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Last edited by GregC on Wed May 23, 2018 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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playboy354



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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for replies.

I'm definitely not qualified enough to attempt myself even though i have some software programming experience.

I was just wondering what is the difficulty and if anyone ever tried.

I guess a company selling a synth that is easily upgraded hardware wise like a pc would defeat the purpose of developing synth workstations but imagine if someone did...if it's possible they would make all the money
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playboy354 wrote:
Thanks for replies.

I'm definitely not qualified enough to attempt myself even though i have some software programming experience.

I was just wondering what is the difficulty and if anyone ever tried.

I guess a company selling a synth that is easily upgraded hardware wise like a pc would defeat the purpose of developing synth workstations but imagine if someone did...if it's possible they would make all the money

Happy to help. In my career I've written everything from audio to midi to dmx lighting to air traffic control software. I can tell you from experience that getting something like this Linux kernel fine tuned, stable and performing in real time is no small thing.

While the geek in me always wants to play with stuff just because I can, in this case I'm of the "if it ain't broke" mentality. It works, I'm happy, and perfectly content to leave it at that. Call me chicken. Smile
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Studio B: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 44 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH | Kronos 88
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Chris Duncan
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
I am not responsible if your Kronos stops working, catches fire, starts making dubstep, or transforms into a Roland.

You do have to admire his style, though.
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Studio B: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 44 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH | Kronos 88
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Chris Duncan
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
I am not technical but did work ( 3 yrs) for a software tools software co where Linux was a big factor.

I haven't seen a Unix screen since the early 90s, and I've slept since then. The networking guys used Linux on old boxes as routers on our test bench when I was doing the ATC stuff but I never had to deal with them.

And yeah, the kind of people doing these hacks are folks who enjoy reverse engineering something just for the fun of the process since Korg obviously didn't document their kernel extensions - and went out of their way to encrypt and obfuscate things.

If this was a throwaway computer that I didn't care about (and there were another 17 hours in my average day) I might be tempted to fool around with it for sport, but I'd much rather spend my time making music. I get my geek fix in during office hours.
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Studio A: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Studio B: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 44 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH | Kronos 88
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Chris Duncan
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos "Bleeding Edge" version . .. Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
GregC wrote:
I am not responsible if your Kronos stops working, catches fire, starts making dubstep, or transforms into a Roland.

You do have to admire his style, though.


I thought it was funny. He was talking to his demographic.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
GregC wrote:
I am not technical but did work ( 3 yrs) for a software tools software co where Linux was a big factor.

I haven't seen a Unix screen since the early 90s, and I've slept since then. The networking guys used Linux on old boxes as routers on our test bench when I was doing the ATC stuff but I never had to deal with them.

And yeah, the kind of people doing these hacks are folks who enjoy reverse engineering something just for the fun of the process since Korg obviously didn't document their kernel extensions - and went out of their way to encrypt and obfuscate things.

If this was a throwaway computer that I didn't care about (and there were another 17 hours in my average day) I might be tempted to fool around with it for sport, but I'd much rather spend my time making music. I get my geek fix in during office hours.


No easy programming task, for sure.

Korg also has IP to protect. They are not going to open the door to any DIY type
on the Internet and lose potentially 3 million in annual sales. There are a few decades of development on this OS/structure. Its not insignificant. Specialized software programming is expensive.
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leonh
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upgrade Kronos to the state of the art tech I guess current flagship workstation hampers your musical talent I 🤣
On the serious side why would Korg spend lot of money on something wich may not sell so much BECAUSE younger generation uses daw and if I want to upgrade I can add any current daw setup to my Kronos for much less money and I will have top of the range studio production setup than possible new workstation wich would cost thousands (I personally dont need anything more than Kronos it is more than enough for my musical talent 😉.)
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

Korg also has IP to protect.

I write software, books, music, videos and probably a few other things. My entire life revolves around IP so as corny as it sounds, I think respecting the work of others is important. Of course, these days the entire Internet disagrees with me, but that's how I choose to live just the same.

If someone wants to tinker with a gizmo they paid for, whether it's a high dollar synth or a digital watch, I don't see any harm in it as long as they're not trying to put it back out there and take away from the people who made it. I know people have added second hard drives, bumped the memory, etc. and I think that's perfectly fine.

As it turns out, my limitations are in my fingers, not the hardware, so I don't have to worry about that. I'm more likely to play bad notes than run out of memory.
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Studio A: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU
Studio B: Cubase 9.0.10 Build 150 64 bit | Windows 7 64 bit | 24 gigs memory | UR 44 | CMC TP-QC-AI-CH | Kronos 88
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playboy354 wrote:
I guess a company selling a synth that is easily upgraded hardware wise like a pc would defeat the purpose of developing synth workstations but imagine if someone did...if it's possible they would make all the money



It has been done. Open Labs NeKo, MiKo, and some that I'm forgetting. What was the workstation that Sharp (our webmaster) bought? It was from Europe (maybe Italian).
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