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Is Kronos on it's way out?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Krome 61 discontinued Reply with quote

Heyjp wrote:
Sweetwater and B&H PhotoVideo showing Krome 61 as discontinued and 73/88 on close out.


The topic is Kronos.

we know about Krome EOL.
Its the above topic
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Krome 61 discontinued Reply with quote

Heyjp wrote:
Sweetwater and B&H PhotoVideo showing Krome 61 as discontinued and 73/88 on close out.


This topic is about Kronos?
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gg22



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kronos2ison wrote:
What a great idea..

leonh wrote:
Yamaha new keyboard MODX is half price of Montage and is selling fast why would Korg make another expensive Kronos they will rather as an Krome update make Kronos lite like MODX with all engines in cheaper package and it would sell for sure.


It already exists - Korg Grandstage.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gg22 wrote:
It already exists - Korg Grandstage

Seriously??? a Kronos update/replacement???? Confused
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LewTheKeyboardGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would doubt that the kronos would be killed off, look at the timeframe from 1st machine to now, longer than the Oasys ever ran. OK there is a potential concept idea here...

As some users may have considered and are aware, Kronos OS is still 32 bit, therefore maximum 3.2gb sample RAM available (3GB + float), with this the linux partitioning method is still a little old, using EXT2 for the main partition, with cluster partitions from what I understand for the various areas of the OS and resources being held.

The kronos as a physical instrument is fine, I love both my 2-88 and LS88 and wouldn't consider anything else.

From a software side of things / Firmware side, I do think it's time to open the field, it hasn't changed for a long time and it needs to.

Let's look at the main issues here:

(note: these are issues I consider and considered opinion only)

1:Main logic board using an early intel Atom spec with SATA II controller - In order to really get the best out of this workstation, an upgrade could be offered to a newer mainboard with a higher spec atom chip which is still energy efficient and provide SATA III 6gbps speeds for SSD's. The ability to have either internal bluetooth / wifi for device connection / networking / file exchange.
2: Current Kronos OS still 32 bit - To truly maximise potential of an already stunning machine, further increase polyphony, etc, time to move to a 64 bit kernel which allows higher memory support, so, 8GB ram would be doable for handling larger sample sets, etc.
3: Kronos OS Program / Combi User handling - In current state, developers creating material for the kronos are faced with supplying libraries in the USER paths they created the material in, as such these program libraries end up in the same user bank for other machines, if a developer has created a number of these in certain banks, they are over-written. To solve this, Korg needs to open the OS to allow users to load created banks where they wish, also to open the way in which USER AA through GG is opened further, example Instead of AA, BB, CC, etc, Open this to Ab, Ac, etc to give further location support.
4: It is time that the DVD installation method faded away and instead a USB pen drive was provided by Korg as part of the investment of a kronos, the pen drive containing the entire installer system in 1 pen, this being faster than USB 2.0 speed DVD-R where it seems that in certain cases, users are having conflicts with external CDRW / DVDRW drives. This would negate the need for an external DVDRW drive which may or may not be compatible. As consumers are aware, the technology supply chain changes. Korg recommends a particular drive which is no longer available and has been replaced, therefore it is Korg's responsibility to ensure a wider support for optical drives with trusted manufacturers to support current users / owners.
5: Drive handling - Currently due to the nature of the SATA II interface and the limitations of the partitioning structure of a 64GB SSD caused by using Linux EXT2 partitioning which is a little old hat, there are limitations if for some reason an SSD fails and yes, SSD's fail due to read/write issues, temperature, ESD, controller errors, etc, thereby making SSD's high speed but not as long lasting as rotational drives, etc. if a 64GB SSD fails, tha maximum supported by the installer media is 128gb, after that , 256gb upwards freezes the format process as the installer instruction code set doesn't support larger drives, a bit reminiscent of a certain windows OS that comes to mind and FAT32 gen 1 handling. To resolve this, Part of the matter comes down to the way the linux OS works as a kernel, part is to do with the EXT2 drive partitioning, Part is to do with SATA II controller speeds vs SATA III which would really wake up the system, increase the boot system time further, etc. There is a potential option to consider here and I don't know why it hasn't been considered. Rather than the OS being on the same drive as sample media and resources based on BUS channel handling on a SATA II interface, why not use a dedicated Non volatile Flash to hold the OS, then use the SSD for sample data, etc.
6: Kronos OS enhancements - The Kronos OS seems to mirror the OASYS OS in terms of UI approach, skinning, etc. the difference being that KronOS OS has the set list mode, etc. Now, For some users who work at night, why not give users a more comfortable UI. Anyone familiar with Mac OS X Mojave would understand the Dark mode version of the OS shell which takes eye strain down completely, With this, why not change the OS colour theme, after all in current Kronos Kernel mode there's a 256 colour palette similar to what used to be in Windows 98 / 95, even windows 3.11 (remember the weird and wonderful colourscapes people came out with) I'm sure that in order to achieve a more comfortable and easier to read for some customers OS could be achieved.

I would say this for a potential consideration for a new kronos if Korg were to consider it. It's not a criticism, it's an improvement. I'm sure it's doable. Either provide an HDMI / DVI out for larger displays, or change the current LCD with touch panel for something on the lines of an 11" or so display, giving a bit more workspace. You could then open this for visually impaired customers as well by implementing some tweaks in to the kronos OS to change resolution or other functions. It's physically doable.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from my side of things.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a technical person but I have worked in tech ( finance] for a few decades.

I am not convinced Kronos is major tweak able- there are numerous limitations. I am not as interested in smaller incremental stuff since I view
Kronos as a long term purchase.

If a bunch of software workarounds and minor component upgrades are done it could result in a cluster of other problems.

Keep in mind, what are the product timeline goals ? 2 yrs ? 5 yrs ? 7 yrs?

Korg use to be a co that looked far ahead.

There are several big picture questions that need to be raised if Korg is ambitious about a serious evolution of Kronos.

Its not easy to think ' top down '. Many think ' bottoms up' because that is tangible, what we see today.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My approach?

Don't worry, about what is coming next. It will have to be something special to replace the Kronos. If the GAS bites when I see what comes out, I have the chance to re-evaluate.....

For now, get the best of breed from Korg and Yamaha (Kronos and Montage) which in themselves will keep me busy for years in exploring them. Couple them with an NUC PC in my gig rack that can run any VSTi in my collection. Chuck in my beloved Nord G2 engine in the rack for good measure (only takes 1U of rack space).

If I cannot make good sounds with that lot, then I do nit deserve a Kronos replacement. Wink
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Kronos owners are also Korg watchers. Its like a curiosity hobby.
Since Korg has done no OS updates since Feb 2017 that has an effect of stoking curiosity and speculation.

My interest in what Korg does, lets say thru NAMM 2019 is also for planning reasons.

Overall, I want to get a feel for what the co's in our niche have to offer or what they are promising for 2019. While Korg is important they are not the only player.

There are numerous options and paths to follow for planning and music production. Or one can sit still and have fun with what they have- its all preference.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually - given the global interest and usage of the likes of Nord Stage; and Kronos's related role and popularity; I think it would be insanity for Korg to cancel Kronos any time soon.

In fact, given the increased popularity of such keyboards for live performance in particular, Kronos is surely an important linch pin for Korg.

I'd go further - Korg have tried to streamline the Kronos to cheaper options that might compete with Nord - and while I don't have stats on their sales, I'd say none are seen by the music market as true competitors to the Stage.

Overall, it looks to me that there's a clear three horse race in this market space - the Roland RD range, Nord Stage and Kronos. While Kronos is a true workstation, it's its high end quality, and flexible synth / keyboard architecture that's paramount - I'd say the vast majority of Kronos users do not use it for it's sequencer capabilities. Nevertheless, I think Korg have a winning formula with Kronos as a workstation - and if I were advising them I'd be telling them not to mess with it - and to have Kronos 3 firmly on the books.

The Nord Stage isn't going anywhere soon; so nor should the Kronos. I hope Korg see it that way.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Actually - given the global interest and usage of the likes of Nord Stage; and Kronos's related role and popularity; I think it would be insanity for Korg to cancel Kronos any time soon.

In fact, given the increased popularity of such keyboards for live performance in particular, Kronos is surely an important linch pin for Korg.

I'd go further - Korg have tried to streamline the Kronos to cheaper options that might compete with Nord - and while I don't have stats on their sales, I'd say none are seen by the music market as true competitors to the Stage.

Overall, it looks to me that there's a clear three horse race in this market space - the Roland RD range, Nord Stage and Kronos. While Kronos is a true workstation, it's its high end quality, and flexible synth / keyboard architecture that's paramount - I'd say the vast majority of Kronos users do not use it for it's sequencer capabilities. Nevertheless, I think Korg have a winning formula with Kronos as a workstation - and if I were advising them I'd be telling them not to mess with it - and to have Kronos 3 firmly on the books.

The Nord Stage isn't going anywhere soon; so nor should the Kronos. I hope Korg see it that way.


Thats a fair and safe marketing approach. Just not very exciting

You are 'lumping ' the digital stage piano performance niche [ very crowded ] with the performance w/s niche. I don't see it clumped that way based on performance artists.

Anyway, Korg entered the fray to the Nord Stage and Roland RD2000 niche with the Grand Stage. The Grand Stage was a direct push into the territory dominated by Nord.

Just the same, my call is that Korg will continue the current Kronos into 2019.
A new upgraded Krome might make it interesting by being cheaper, and simpler + a few bells and whistles.

Simply, Kronos has the staying power , just as it is, even 7 years later.

So says my old tea leaves.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point they could do well with a Kronos updated to a through-and-through 96KHz/32bit standard, with a 64bit OS allowing plenty more RAM, and beefed up CPU power. Call it Kronos 3, and for the love of all that's holy, give it a piano roll, at long last. And a 13 inch touchscreen.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
At this point they could do well with a Kronos updated to a through-and-through 96KHz/32bit standard, with a 64bit OS allowing plenty more RAM, and beefed up CPU power. Call it Kronos 3, and for the love of all that's holy, give it a piano roll, at long last. And a 13 inch touchscreen.


and make the Font size tinier.
for under $3000

Very Happy

the laundry list of potential improvements is very long.

Its up to Korg- think short term or long term ? A few component changes would be a short term fix.

It would be fun to be on the architecture team at Korg. I would go for a long term product , mostly start from scratch in order to not be restricted or locked into old [todays components] approaches.

Things in tech change/progress every year. Lots of destruction.
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drama1
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for the love of God, make a 73/76 semi-weighted option. Sheeese.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
Actually - given the global interest and usage of the likes of Nord Stage; and Kronos's related role and popularity; I think it would be insanity for Korg to cancel Kronos any time soon.

In fact, given the increased popularity of such keyboards for live performance in particular, Kronos is surely an important linch pin for Korg.

I'd go further - Korg have tried to streamline the Kronos to cheaper options that might compete with Nord - and while I don't have stats on their sales, I'd say none are seen by the music market as true competitors to the Stage.

Overall, it looks to me that there's a clear three horse race in this market space - the Roland RD range, Nord Stage and Kronos. While Kronos is a true workstation, it's its high end quality, and flexible synth / keyboard architecture that's paramount - I'd say the vast majority of Kronos users do not use it for it's sequencer capabilities. Nevertheless, I think Korg have a winning formula with Kronos as a workstation - and if I were advising them I'd be telling them not to mess with it - and to have Kronos 3 firmly on the books.

The Nord Stage isn't going anywhere soon; so nor should the Kronos. I hope Korg see it that way.


Thats a fair and safe marketing approach. Just not very exciting

You are 'lumping ' the digital stage piano performance niche [ very crowded ] with the performance w/s niche. I don't see it clumped that way based on performance artists.

Anyway, Korg entered the fray to the Nord Stage and Roland RD2000 niche with the Grand Stage. The Grand Stage was a direct push into the territory dominated by Nord.

Just the same, my call is that Korg will continue the current Kronos into 2019.
A new upgraded Krome might make it interesting by being cheaper, and simpler + a few bells and whistles.

Simply, Kronos has the staying power , just as it is, even 7 years later.

So says my old tea leaves.



I don't agree with your take on the importance of the Nord Stage and Kronos (agree your last statement on Kronos totally however Smile ).

In my opinion, The Korg Grand Stage is irrelevant. The Nord Stage is where it's at; market leader wise. It dominates stages, globally. I was at a street jazz festival in Paris a few years back and even then - every band on every street corner was using a Nord.

The Nord Stage (and Electro) is significantly more than a stage piano. I was originally highly critical of it (even here) - but - they have evolved it into _the_ keyboard (range) to use if you're a gigging or professional musician; and now in studios across the planet. There's virtually no music interview on any media platform that doesn't have a Nord in the frame. The range incorporates an entire ecosphere - acoustic and electric pianos, clavs, organs, and synthesizer - all in one advanced performance package; supported by extensive online libraries.

By comparison the Korg Grand Stage is just another meaningless keyboard in the lineage of thousands of electric pianos otherwise available over the years.

What you take for granted and undervalue with Kronos is the sum total of 30 years of development of the Workstation that happens, per chance, to have a feature set and performance package to rival the Nord Stage. There's nothing inadvertent about Kronos - it's the blood, sweat and tears of the very best of what Korg have to offer - and by comparison - all other Korg products are essentially characterless - as in - anyone could release them

Kronos IS Korg's DNA in my opinion - and as said - also a _very_ competitive package to take on the Nord Stage - a vital aspect for the future in my opinion.

Any one designer, marketing executive, ... in Korg who think they have an alternative future for Korg that will in any way rival what Kronos represents as innately "Korg" are deluding themselves.


The development of Kronos into the future is, in my opinion, THE single most important component to Korg's future, and future identity. I remind you that you, me and anyone owning an OASYS or Kronos know, at best, about 5 - 10% of its features - so even as is - it represents a vast architecture still mostly to be explored for the firs time.

Any additions or enhancement to that, however light, will sustain Kronos as the most advanced keyboard package there has ever been for some time to come.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
[

In my opinion, The Korg Grand Stage is irrelevant. The Nord Stage is where it's at; market leader wise. It dominates stages, globally. I was at a street jazz festival in Paris a few years back and even then - every band on every street corner was using a Nord.

The Nord Stage (and Electro) is significantly more than a stage piano. I was originally highly critical of it (even here) - but - they have evolved it into _the_ keyboard (range) to use if you're a gigging or professional musician; and now in studios across the planet.


Nord Stage keyboards super popular. Yes. News at 11:00.
We know this.

Of course its more popular than the Grand Stage[GS}. By years and years and years. If I was the Korg president, I am not sure I would have bothered to compete with Nord, Roland and yamaha, and Casio and DigiBell. Crowded crowded and then some.

I am not promoting the GS, I stated it appeared to be Korgs answer to Nords
dominance. The GS has more than EP's, organ, etc. It has AL-1 and HD-1, it has a group of ensemble instruments.

Always fun to start our the New Year, with what ever Korg's strategy is.
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