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ChrisDuncan
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Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Keyboard split to different synth |
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While I wouldn't have spent the extra money to buy a Monologue, since they're throwing it in for free, why not. With that in mind, I'm looking at integration.
I love how the keyboard on the Kronos feels and would like to keep my fingers there and just use the Monologue as another synth engine, preferably sounding at the same time as the Kronos engines.
A use case I had in mind would be to create a combi with a keyboard split and give, for example, the top two octaves of the Kronos keyboard to the Monologue.
Easy enough to patch midi out of the Kronos to midi in of the Monologue, but I'm not sure about the split. I've been looking at the combi splits and midi filters and it's not clear to me if / how I can point all midi messages (note and everything else) of the top two octaves to the Monologue and not have them sound in the Kronos.
Is something like this possible, or am I just barking at the moon?
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just realized I'm probably over complicating this in looking for midi filters. I'm thinking the following should work:
1. Set the Monologue to listen to channel 16
2. Create a combi with whatever Kronos sounds / splits in channels 1 - 15
3. On channel 16, create the top two octave split, but assign no sound
The net result should be channels 1 - 15 play normal Kronos programs as usual, channel 16 doesn't sound on Kronos. The notes played on the top two octaves go out channel 16, which the Monologue picks up and plays.
I'm kinda white boarding it at the moment as the Monologue hasn't arrived to test with. Can anyone offer thoughts as to whether my logic is correct on this?
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm new to the Kronos as well as the forums here, and am still learning how both work.
When a post gets zero response, it typically means one of two things. Either no one can answer it (they don't know / the question's too poorly worded to follow), or "your question is so basic and stupid that you should just Google it instead of wasting our time." Every Internet community has its own personality.
All the people I've spoken with have been very helpful, so I'm not sure if my ideas are off the deep end or they're simply too stupid to dignify with a response. There's probably a good case for either.
Just trying to get a feel for how best to interact with folks here.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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It may also be that people are busy and not gotten around to answering yet, or missed the post first time around when skimming the new posts. 
What you are saying is indeed possible. You can also set the Timbre into EXT mode to send patch changes to the Monologue when you change timbres.
One thing to check in Global settings is what you default MIDI channel is. It is by default set to 16. So either change that, or pick a different channel/timbre for the Monologue. Say Timbre 15, Channel 15. Set the Monologue to receive on Channel 15. Set the Timbre Keyranges as you need (split or layer).
Should be as simple as that.
Given that you are on the right track have you simply tried it yet?
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Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Derek Cook wrote: | It may also be that people are busy and not gotten around to answering yet, or missed the post first time around when skimming the new posts.
What you are saying is indeed possible. You can also set the Timbre into EXT mode to send patch changes to the Monologue when you change timbres.
One thing to check in Global settings is what you default MIDI channel is. It is by default set to 16. So either change that, or pick a different channel/timbre for the Monologue. Say Timbre 15, Channel 15. Set the Monologue to receive on Channel 15. Set the Timbre Keyranges as you need (split or layer).
Should be as simple as that.
Given that you are on the right track have you simply tried it yet? |
Hey, Derek.
Appreciate the insight. As I'd mentioned, I'm currently white boarding it because I haven't received the Monologue from Korg yet and they offer no ETA. So, I amuse myself by trying to figure things out in advance.
That all makes sense, and the default of 16 is perfect since I think left to right anyway and would imagine using all 16 channels would be rare.
Of course, in the meantime I should probably play with the AL-1 engine. I'm guessing the Kronos can do pretty much anything the Monologue can, but since they're sending me a free toy, may as well play with it.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Derek Cook wrote: | | I haven't tried a Monologue, so cannot comment, but AL-1 is very powerful, so get stuck in. |
Yeah, the more I dig into this stuff the more it looks like the mother of all rabbit holes.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | I'm new to the Kronos as well as the forums here, and am still learning how both work.
When a post gets zero response, it typically means one of two things. Either no one can answer it (they don't know / the question's too poorly worded to follow), or "your question is so basic and stupid that you should just Google it instead of wasting our time." Every Internet community has its own personality.
All the people I've spoken with have been very helpful, so I'm not sure if my ideas are off the deep end or they're simply too stupid to dignify with a response. There's probably a good case for either.
Just trying to get a feel for how best to interact with folks here. |
Sorry I did not answer. Korg' has not increased my annual $150,000 salary in a year so I am rebelling 
When it comes to midi mapping, I run out of strong coffee to write everything out. Looks like you have enough to work with, use Combi or SEQ mode, assign EXT1 or 2 at the Program/paramter level. Assuming Monologue responds to midi, then go to Midi Filters and zones to talk to the Mono.
I suspect we will see many " New Monologue 's " on eBay very soon. I tend to think the AL-1 engine is a better use of time. Assuming you really want to sink into those sounds.
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | Derek Cook wrote: | | I haven't tried a Monologue, so cannot comment, but AL-1 is very powerful, so get stuck in. |
Yeah, the more I dig into this stuff the more it looks like the mother of all rabbit holes. |
I like your rabbit hole metaphor. It looks endless.
I am older than many around here which is why I see things differently.
I state a keyboard musician, getting into production, should get clear on his/her requirements first for their $3000 keyboard, w/s, etc, etc.
If it was a simple under $1000 keyboard, thats a different story,
IOW, I don't view the Kronos or any w/s as an impulse buy. I have noticed that some get frustrated with Kronos, and eventually don't use it much, and eventually sell it. I think that expensive experience can be avoided.
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Sorry I did not answer. Korg' has not increased my annual $150,000 salary in a year so I am rebelling |
I'm grateful for all the help folks offer, just wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking some unwritten rule by asking stupid things. Some folks are a little more twitchy about that than others.
When I'm working with multiple programs in Combis I always have to remember to change them from their default midi channels, so it looks like that's already set up to speak to the outside world, thanks.
Yeah, I don't know how much time I'll spend on the Monologue for that very reason but hey, if a new toy lands in a box you gotta play with it at least a little.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: |
I like your rabbit hole metaphor. It looks endless.
I am older than many around here which is why I see things differently.
I state a keyboard musician, getting into production, should get clear on his/her requirements first for their $3000 keyboard, w/s, etc, etc.
If it was a simple under $1000 keyboard, thats a different story,
IOW, I don't view the Kronos or any w/s as an impulse buy. I have noticed that some get frustrated with Kronos, and eventually don't use it much, and eventually sell it. I think that expensive experience can be avoided. |
My perspective may also be a bit different.
I was primarily a guitarist for 40 years, always fooled with keys but in the past year decided to start getting serious about it as a primary instrument, for a change of pace. I don't do much gigging these days. My time is spent in the studio or with friends, so my needs revolve around songwriting and recording.
I've had a Roland JV-2080 since the late 90s and a Fatar 88 key weighted controller, so I spent a lot of time just playing with that to see if I was really serious about going this route or it was just a summer thing. Once I knew I had the bug (the old staying up late nights because you don't want to stop thing), I decided it was time to upgrade.
I wanted a very wide palette of sounds so I could start exploring and writing something other than the default blues rock that comes out of my guitar. And I wanted those sounds in a hardware solution. No matter how much I tune the daw / computer, the latency of playing through vst plugins is just too distracting for me. I'm also used to pro gear and am of the opinion that the pain in your wallet goes away quickly, while the pain of crap gear lives on, day after day.
So, I did the research, considered the Montage, FA and a couple of others and ended up at the Kronos for an instrument that covered all that ground, was pro gear, and was something I wouldn't outgrow next year.
In my brief time with it thus far, I couldn't be more pleased. It's powerful, sounds good, and if there's a sound it just can't do well I'll simply record the midi playing a program that's close. Then I'll load that midi track into Cubase and just point it at an appropriate vst.
And while I do have a bit of a dodgy history with bunnies (there was this stripper...), I'm not the least bit intimidated by rabbit holes. I've survived decades of coding for Microsoft platforms. If that hasn't screwed me up for life, I doubt the Kronos is going to scare me.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | GregC wrote: |
I like your rabbit hole metaphor. It looks endless.
I am older than many around here which is why I see things differently.
I state a keyboard musician, getting into production, should get clear on his/her requirements first for their $3000 keyboard, w/s, etc, etc.
If it was a simple under $1000 keyboard, thats a different story,
IOW, I don't view the Kronos or any w/s as an impulse buy. I have noticed that some get frustrated with Kronos, and eventually don't use it much, and eventually sell it. I think that expensive experience can be avoided. |
My perspective may also be a bit different.
I was primarily a guitarist for 40 years, always fooled with keys but in the past year decided to start getting serious about it as a primary instrument, for a change of pace. I don't do much gigging these days. My time is spent in the studio or with friends, so my needs revolve around songwriting and recording.
I've had a Roland JV-2080 since the late 90s and a Fatar 88 key weighted controller, so I spent a lot of time just playing with that to see if I was really serious about going this route or it was just a summer thing. Once I knew I had the bug (the old staying up late nights because you don't want to stop thing), I decided it was time to upgrade.
I wanted a very wide palette of sounds so I could start exploring and writing something other than the default blues rock that comes out of my guitar. And I wanted those sounds in a hardware solution. No matter how much I tune the daw / computer, the latency of playing through vst plugins is just too distracting for me. I'm also used to pro gear and am of the opinion that the pain in your wallet goes away quickly, while the pain of crap gear lives on, day after day.
So, I did the research, considered the Montage, FA and a couple of others and ended up at the Kronos for an instrument that covered all that ground, was pro gear, and was something I wouldn't outgrow next year.
In my brief time with it thus far, I couldn't be more pleased. It's powerful, sounds good, and if there's a sound it just can't do well I'll simply record the midi playing a program that's close. Then I'll load that midi track into Cubase and just point it at an appropriate vst.
And while I do have a bit of a dodgy history with bunnies (there was this stripper...), I'm not the least bit intimidated by rabbit holes. I've survived decades of coding for Microsoft platforms. If that hasn't screwed me up for life, I doubt the Kronos is going to scare me. |
thats great. Good to hear you analyzed whats out there and thought it thru.
IMO, the K is a song writers best friend. I am a throwback in that I rely on the SEQ. I am coming up on 25 originals( retro 80's stuff) using the SEQ. The work flow satisfies my Muse. And we all know about the useful good sounds.
I have plans to transition from the SEQ as soon as the Muse says its time.
I am ready to go with the hardware/software.
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Achieve your musical dreams
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | I have plans to transition from the SEQ as soon as the Muse says its time.
I am ready to go with the hardware/software. |
Listened to some of your soundcloud songs, good stuff, man.
My drums, bass, guitar, vocals, etc. live in Cubase, so I'll just record a given keyboard part as audio, the same as any other instrument. I like having the full blown DAW environment available for tracking and mixing.
That said, the midi sequencer and audio track capability, along with the fact that you can create good sounding bass and drum parts, were contributing factors to my getting the Kronos. That's going to be a real workflow enhancement when writing, allowing me to capture a complete idea right at the keyboard without having to go back and forth with Cubase.
The fewer things to fool with when writing, the better the chances that I won't lose ideas because I had to stop and deal with computers, wires or software stuff.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | GregC wrote: | I have plans to transition from the SEQ as soon as the Muse says its time.
I am ready to go with the hardware/software. |
Listened to some of your soundcloud songs, good stuff, man.
My drums, bass, guitar, vocals, etc. live in Cubase, so I'll just record a given keyboard part as audio, the same as any other instrument. I like having the full blown DAW environment available for tracking and mixing.
That said, the midi sequencer and audio track capability, along with the fact that you can create good sounding bass and drum parts, were contributing factors to my getting the Kronos. That's going to be a real workflow enhancement when writing, allowing me to capture a complete idea right at the keyboard without having to go back and forth with Cubase.
The fewer things to fool with when writing, the better the chances that I won't lose ideas because I had to stop and deal with computers, wires or software stuff. |
Thx for checking out my stuff. Its 100% Kronos, of course. I use to play some
guitar in the days of covered wagons. Guitar parts are important to many of my tunes. Nothing flashy.
Its cool you are fired up, ready to fly on Cubase. My FA is DAW friendly. I have quite a bit of track work integration with VI's and the FA, to improve my Kronos Song tracks. My thought is to get the best of all 3 worlds. For example, I believe the Karma/Kronos drums are a keeper. I will likely Rolandize my guitar tracks as
I much prefer Roland guitars over Kronos.
I have been limited with the SEQ's 16 midi tracks and 175 note polyphony. It will be good to bust out of that on Cubase. In a year, I hope to have a new work flow.
I think you are smart to use Kronos as a drum and bass monster. Since you are a song writer, you likely know how important the rhythm section is. I do have questions about Cubase recognizing Karma parts . Likely all my Karma stuff will become another audio part instead of a midi part. I think Karma drums are excellent. Like you mentioned, its important to not lose your idea flow while
fighting with software problems. You will like the ease of copying programs
into the SEQ.
Another consideration is to get get solid with the file system on Kronos. Its easier for us Triton owners since not much has changed in 15 years.
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Achieve your musical dreams
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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I built this house in 2003 and the studio was part of the design. Like any studio the configuration has been a moving target ever since. I recently got rid of a Mackie D8B / HDR and finally committed to 100% in the box other than some preamps and such. This is the current iteration.
http://HappyDragonMusic.com/Studio
I'll be using Kronos for the bass sounds, for sure. I'd been using the 2080 and there's no comparison. I haven't done a comparison of EZ / Superior drummer with the Kronos drums yet. They're dedicated drum sample libraries and good quality, but in effect the Kronos is also a sample library, so I may end up using some of that on drums as well. Either way, I'll definitely use them in songwriting for simplicity. And yeah, the groove is everything.
I definitely agree with the best of all worlds approach. The 2080 stays in the rack for that reason. It sounds nothing like the Kronos. But then, there may be times when I want something that sounds nothing like the Kronos. Getting something new and cool doesn't immediately make everything else suck.
I haven't even cracked the seal on Karma yet, so I don't know how it talks to the outside world. If 100% of what it does can be represented in midi, then midi is midi and Cubase should be able to faithfully record and reproduce it. However, Karma seems like a massively powerful set of algorithms so your idea of just pointing it to audio outs and recording it is certainly the path of least pain. I have a Mackie MCU control interface because I like physical knobs and dials for Cubase. The Kronos already has that for Karma, with an integrated interface. No sense reinventing the wheel.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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