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Ribbon Attack/Decay for controlling filter mod
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: Ribbon Attack/Decay for controlling filter mod Reply with quote

Hi,
Can someone help me with this?
I want my ribbon controller to control the filter mod by sweeping the low pass filter frequency (which it already does) but I want to make it to where when I slide the ribbon it sweeps slowly and smoothly. And when I let go of the ribbon it slowly returns to the center.

I somehow stumbled upon this by accident on my M3, but I can't remember how I did it. I'm sure if the M3 could do it, the Kronos can. I just can't find it, and my brain hurts for the last hour of looking for it.

I don't really understand what AMS or AMS mixers do but I'm pretty sure that has something to do with what I am trying to do.

Please help!
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Page 1097 of parameter guide has the list of AMS options on Kronos.
Ribbon CC#16 is on the list and that means you can go to your filter mod page to set up AMS to the needed parameter, if it is not already set to ribbon.

You have on “filter modulation” pages, a page for “Filter LFO Modulation”. This allows you to scale the amount of LFO applied to filters.

Filter mod 1 & 2 are there. Not sure myself how the Filter LFO Modulation works or if it produces by itself what you describe doing, but you also mention AMS mixer.
AMS mixer also does the scaling of amounts applied to one AMS by using another AMS to do the scaling. That is not all it does.
Below is a small excerpt from parameter guide showing different AMS mixer options, but you can follow through beyond page 97 and see the details of what is going on in AMS mixer and you will see also why i first brought up LFO modulation. The parameter guide even gives you waveform patterns to look at for a general idea of which AMS in the mix would taper out or taper in for the type of responses you are looking for, via ribbon control.
You are right about AMS and AMS mixer is likely where you want to be. Ribbon itself as a controller cannot be assigned but AMS can use ribbon CC#16 wherever AMS applies.
It is all rather complicated for me having to follow all that is going on in any of the AMS mixes. Especially when so many parameters in one program can have AMS applied, even AMS on LFO and then have that LFO assigned to be AMS on something else and then AMS mixer can come in to mix up all that.

Page 97 parameter guide
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6–1a: AMS Mixer 1
Mixer Type
[A+B, Amt AxB, Offset, Smoothing, Shape, Quantize, Gate]
This controls the type of processing performed by AMS Mixer 1. Each of the Mixer Types is discussed in detail over the next several pages.

A+B adds two AMS sources together. For more information, see “A+B” on page 98.

Amt Ax B scales the amount of one AMS source with the other. See “Amt A x B” on page 98 for more details.

Offset adds or subtracts a constant value to or from an AMS source. For more information, see “Offset” on page 99.

Smoothing creates more gentle transitions between values, smoothing out abrupt changes such as a quick move on a joystick or a sharp edge on an LFO. For details, see “Smoothing” on page 100

Shape adds curvature to the AMS input. For an in-depth description, see “Shape” on page 100.

Quantize turns smooth transitions into discrete steps. See “Quantize” on page 101 for more information.

Gate chooses between two AMS inputs (or fixed values) based on a third AMS source. See “Gate” on page 102 for more information.
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I saw that "smoothing" option that sounded like what I was looking for.
I even enabled it and it gave me parameters for attack and decay, but it made no difference in how quickly the filter reacted to the ribbon.

Thanks for your response.
I will dig deeper and try to wrap my head around the AMS parameters.
I'd rather understand them than just accidentally get it right like I did on my M3.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which engine are you using, HD-1?
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Which engine are you using, HD-1?


Yes. HD-1
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, patch the ribbon as the source for a Smoothing AMS mixer and set the attack and decay to around 50. Then patch in that AMS Mixer as the source for the filter modulation.

The attack on the AMS mixer is for values that move in a positive direction ie when you glide to the right on the ribbon. The decay is for movements to the left. For example if you have the Smoothing AMS Mixer patched into LPF cutoff with positive intensity, then you'll open the filter when moving the ribbon to the right... then if you let go the LPF will glide down to wherever you programmed it's resting value to be as long as you have a moderate amount of smoothing decay. Remember the ribbon always snaps back to a resting CC value of 64, but that CC value rests on wherever you programmed the Cutoff frequency to be. So you'll need to close the filter first if you want it to open while moving in a positive direction on the ribbon.
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Okay, patch the ribbon as the source for a Smoothing AMS mixer and set the attack and decay to around 50. Then patch in that AMS Mixer as the source for the filter modulation.

The attack on the AMS mixer is for values that move in a positive direction ie when you glide to the right on the ribbon. The decay is for movements to the left. For example if you have the Smoothing AMS Mixer patched into LPF cutoff with positive intensity, then you'll open the filter when moving the ribbon to the right... then if you let go the LPF will glide down to wherever you programmed it's resting value to be as long as you have a moderate amount of smoothing decay. Remember the ribbon always snaps back to a resting CC value of 64, but that CC value rests on wherever you programmed the Cutoff frequency to be. So you'll need to close the filter first if you want it to open while moving in a positive direction on the ribbon.


I'm at work, so I can't try this until later, but I am almost certain that is what I did on my M3 now that you explained it.
And it worked beautifully!
The only other thing I did is set button 2 as ribbon lock, so I could hold a value if I wanted to.

Thank you so much!!!!
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Okay, patch the ribbon as the source for a Smoothing AMS mixer and set the attack and decay to around 50. Then patch in that AMS Mixer as the source for the filter modulation.

The attack on the AMS mixer is for values that move in a positive direction ie when you glide to the right on the ribbon. The decay is for movements to the left. For example if you have the Smoothing AMS Mixer patched into LPF cutoff with positive intensity, then you'll open the filter when moving the ribbon to the right... then if you let go the LPF will glide down to wherever you programmed it's resting value to be as long as you have a moderate amount of smoothing decay. Remember the ribbon always snaps back to a resting CC value of 64, but that CC value rests on wherever you programmed the Cutoff frequency to be. So you'll need to close the filter first if you want it to open while moving in a positive direction on the ribbon.



I'm getting ready to sell my house so I haven't had a lot of time to mess with this.

But, I tried it last night. And it worked! And it was glorious! Smile
I love how smooth it is, modding the filter on my warm pad!
So cool!

Thanks!
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more question.

If I want to lower the max range of the filter mod, how do I set an upper limit?
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keeverw wrote:
One more question.

If I want to lower the max range of the filter mod, how do I set an upper limit?


Can you rephrase that or go into more detail? I'm not totally sure what it is you're trying to ask. Do you want to know how to lower the maximum range of filter modulation? I suspect you already know how to do that since you got it working in the first place. If not are you asking how to set an upper limit? That's exactly the same as setting the max range. Ie lowering the range of modulation will lower how much the filter opens up.
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
keeverw wrote:
One more question.

If I want to lower the max range of the filter mod, how do I set an upper limit?


Can you rephrase that or go into more detail? I'm not totally sure what it is you're trying to ask. Do you want to know how to lower the maximum range of filter modulation? I suspect you already know how to do that since you got it working in the first place. If not are you asking how to set an upper limit? That's exactly the same as setting the max range. Ie lowering the range of modulation will lower how much the filter opens up.


Well, I'm using a slightly modified preset.
So the filter mod (sweep of the LP frequency) was already set up.
All I did was an an AMS for smoothing the attack and release of the ribbon controller.

But I wanted to be able to set the upper frequency when the ribbon is all the way to the right.

I'm sorry, I'm not terribly familiar to put it in better terms than that.

When I slide my finger to the right, the filter opens up more than I want it to. I could slide it less, but I'd rather not have to think about that when performing. Plus it gives more range of motion, if the max is lower.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lower the modulation intensity to decrease the range of modulation and adjust your filter cutoff frequency to change the center position of the ribbon.
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
Lower the modulation intensity to decrease the range of modulation and adjust your filter cutoff frequency to change the center position of the ribbon.


Perfect! Thank you!
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keeverw
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a video of me using the patch so you can see what I was going for.

Thanks again!


https://youtu.be/L8Gi7rrx70U
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool yeah seems like you got it, and you figured out how to set the attack and decay to make the ribbon respond more slowly. Good job 👍
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