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The Kronos competitors?
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I just feel confident that Korg will introduce a keyboard to replace the Kronos. IMO.

Plus there have been no updates recently for the KRONOS and that is the pattern that Korg seems to duplicate. But the Kronos is still one of the best keyboards available today. Time will tell.
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marc1
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just feel confident that Korg will introduce a keyboard to replace the Kronos.


I'm sure they will. But my guess would be rather 2020.

Quote:
there have been no updates recently for the KRONOS


While this is true, there have been hints from Korg employees that there might be another update for the Kronos in the making. At least, it seems, they're about to offer a best of Triton sounds for the Kronos in the near future.


I personally doubt they would go any more lenghts with Kronos development if they already had some newer and greater workstation waiting for release.

Quote:
Time will tell.


Yes, either way Namm 2019 we will know more, imho.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The Kronos competitors? Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
So how old is the Kronos? And the oasys with basically a comparable engine before that?

Yet still there is no direct competition..

?


Lets go back to this good question.

Its reasonable to expect a close #2 product
when the leader or #1 product is successful.

And to qualify successful, lets
include Oasys, since Kronos would not exist without Oasys. To stretch the timeline, Oasys had roots in another Korg product from 1999, the OASYS PCI, a DSP-based PCI-card for PC and Mac released in 1999.

The thought occurred to me- Korg filed patents on the technology. I don't have the data but I know a smart electronics co protects their innovation, technology, etc.

By doing so, competition couldn't easily create a similar all in one W/s. To find another way technically is difficult and expensive and problematic.

Thats my assumption based on hindsight. Because if was feasible , the market for a competing $3500 W/s was plainly there.

But it would have to be done ' correctly ' plus catch the imagination of keyboard owners.

The fact that we do not see a clear #2 or significant competition , after all these years, has me thinking of filed patents.
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marc1 wrote:
Quote:
I just feel confident that Korg will introduce a keyboard to replace the Kronos.


I'm sure they will. But my guess would be rather 2020.

Quote:
there have been no updates recently for the KRONOS


While this is true, there have been hints from Korg employees that there might be another update for the Kronos in the making. At least, it seems, they're about to offer a best of Triton sounds for the Kronos in the near future.


I personally doubt they would go any more lenghts with Kronos development if they already had some newer and greater workstation waiting for release.

Quote:
Time will tell.



Yes, either way Namm 2019 we will know more, imho.


This is a link for the old Triton Sounds for Korg Kronos that are free I know this is not the one you are speaking of though. But are very good.

http://www.kronoshaven.com/kronos-news/korg-triton-sounds-for-korg-kronos/
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benny ray wrote:
Kronos 2 will be discontinued next year and a new replacement will be introduced in 2019.


Thats what people have been saying for atleast 3 eards now.. only the date gets moved a year backward..

Well, i hope for a virtual modular synth engine.. an advanced form of reaktor in ahardware synth..
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leonh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is strange the best workstation is getting old and still is the bestselling one Very Happy
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tdwctdwc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, nothing beats the Kronos....not even in the software domain. Why? because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do. Maybe some sounds are not as natural as their big vst libraries alternatives, but that's like picking a needle in a haystack, also you have to remember that the Kronos is almost an 8 years old technology (and still holds its own). I can only imagine what the Kronos successor will be like.

Listen to this. This happened today. I was talking with a fellow musician online through pm about string libraries/film scoring and what not. And he offered a challenge to record/compare the kronos strings to the ones made by a major software company who specializes in making strings libraries (not going to mention the name). I accepted the challenge. At first i said to myself "I'm doomed!" because i know that natural strings are considered one of the very few Kronos weaknesses. So how did the Kronos fare? Well...take a listen below. Of course i couldn't help but smack a pad on top of it lol.

- Kronos strings/pads: https://instaud.io/2vYY

- Major software developer strings: https://instaud.io/2vYX


Side note: The piano is not the Kronos piano, it's a software piano library that he requested i use.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tdwctdwc wrote:
In my opinion, nothing beats the Kronos....not even in the software domain. Why? because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do. Maybe some sounds are not as natural as their big vst libraries alternatives, but that's like picking a needle in a haystack, also you have to remember that the Kronos is almost an 8 years old technology (and still holds its own). I can only imagine what the Kronos successor will be like.

Listen to this. This happened today. I was talking with a fellow musician online through pm about string libraries/film scoring and what not. And he offered a challenge to record/compare the kronos strings to the ones made by a major software company who specializes in making strings libraries (not going to mention the name). I accepted the challenge. At first i said to myself "I'm doomed!" because i know that natural strings are considered one of the very few Kronos weaknesses. So how did the Kronos fare? Well...take a listen below. Of course i couldn't help but smack a pad on top of it lol.

- Kronos strings/pads: https://instaud.io/2vYY

- Major software developer strings: https://instaud.io/2vYX


Side note: The piano is not the Kronos piano, it's a software piano library that he requested i use.


The piano sounds great. My ears are drawn to that vs any distinction or close resemblance between the 2 sources of the string sections.

I think Kronos has very good factory strings/orchestras. There might be some gaps or areas not covered. There are some string orchestra instruments that could be better represented.

To expect perfection is not reasonable at this point, for that section , 7 yrs later.
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KK
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tdwctdwc wrote:
In my opinion, nothing beats the Kronos....not even in the software domain. Why? because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do.

I totally agree. Dancing

Combining the 9 Kronos engines offers infinite possibilities. I've owned quite a few other synths before, but never could duplicate certain sounds perfectly, until I got my Kronos-2. The AL-1 is my favorite. It can sound exactly the same (and IMHO even better !) as the most powerful synths, for example JMJ's Elka Synthex laserharp lead, Emerson's monster modular like the Hoedown 4-VCO ascending synth, etc. There is really no limit.

I wish I had more time to experiment as well with the STR-1 and MOD-7. Cool
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DeltaJockey
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm always puzzled by human nature, and the constant quest for more and better, myself included!

We lust for a do it all machine with open architecture and long term upgradeability, the Oasys, then Kronos comes along, we bask in the euphoria of the "hit", and soon our eyes' gaze look up from our best and latest as we further look to renew our satisfaction with the mystery of what may come next. We are conflicting in our pursuits.....at so many levels.

We are aiming for the holy grail, in what we think it may be, and once we achieve it, by definition, it is not the holy grail anymore. We strive for satisfaction, as though it is the noble and final act, but if we were indeed to obtain it and stop, we would stop being the creative and dreaming creatures we are...so is the dilemmas of life we face Smile

Well... that's philosophizing out of the way Smile

I enjoy the fact that Kronos has almost limitless "loadability" with pretty much any sound creation, and the articulation of these creations to achieve the realism and experience it does. I use a lot of third party libraries, and I agree that they compare well with equivalent software libraries out there. The thing which makes the Kronos work so well with these libraries is the fact that the controllers and keyboard zone/velocity mappings are tuned so well to the Kronos, it makes easy work of using them. A tribute to those developers putting all the work in for you. Sure, software libraries do sound great too, but I find that in order to get the realistic playability, you have to do a lot more tweaking to match your keyboard and controller interfacing.

I've invested a lot in Kronos, and am trying to tell myself that I don't have the need for anything new that may be released in the next year or two. My aim will be to try and smartly replicate any new functionality which may be a selling point of a new product. Hardware upgrades increasing speed and capacity is of course a limit, but I'm thinking around this by using 2 Kronos linked for instance. The Kronos pianos are still as brilliant as they day they were released in my opinion, but I am reminded of how far the sound has come since 2011, when you compare the astounding expressive capability of the latest Kapro libraries for instance when compared to the default string programs. It really is like buying a new keyboard in that fact alone. I more look forward to what amazing libraries will be produced for the Kronos than a new piece of hardware!

I believe the Konos limitations can be increased further by the imagination of further library creation Smile
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tdwctdwc wrote:
because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do.


There are numerous things like granular synthesis that can't be really covered by the Kronos.

Where the Kronos lags by miles however is the interface. The touchscreen interface and the engines are over a decade old, and it shows, so it costs more time on Kronos to do something advanced.

take a look at the touchscreen interface Korg uses for Karma on the ipad, it works much more natural then on the K. Or just look at the Waldorf Quantum, which utilizes the touchscreen in an awesome way...
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leonh
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes new screen motherboard and processor would be nice not that I personally need because my music would not be better because of new model saying that how many would buy 3000/4000 £ upgraded Kronos that what Korg is wondering i guess.
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kronoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

without being nostalgic in any way I think, IMHO that there was a kind of extravaganza, some foolish things in the Yamaha SY 77 that are absolutely not present in the actual Korg Kronos. The Knonos is, how to say that... , too much "square" ! The Knonos lacks some kind of madness in its musical aim. Difficult to explain but that's it. Let's hope ! Wink
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ITguy54
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
tdwctdwc wrote:
because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do.


There are numerous things like granular synthesis that can't be really covered by the Kronos.

Where the Kronos lags by miles however is the interface. The touchscreen interface and the engines are over a decade old, and it shows, so it costs more time on Kronos to do something advanced.

take a look at the touchscreen interface Korg uses for Karma on the ipad, it works much more natural then on the K. Or just look at the Waldorf Quantum, which utilizes the touchscreen in an awesome way...


There's plenty of synth engines that could be added to the Kronos. It doesn't have every possible digital technique for synthesis. Take additive synthesis/resynthesis for instance. Taking a sample and breaking it down into its harmonic components could open up a whole new world for hardware synth players. It's polyphony is getting dated too. With the newer faster processors and large amounts of SSD memory getting cheaper, there's room for a hardware update. It might even be a good idea for Korg to do some research of the newer FPGA processors to see if there would be an advantage to using them in a newer version of the Kronos.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ITguy54 wrote:
Bachus wrote:
tdwctdwc wrote:
because there's nothing the kronos can't be programmed to do.


There are numerous things like granular synthesis that can't be really covered by the Kronos.

Where the Kronos lags by miles however is the interface. The touchscreen interface and the engines are over a decade old, and it shows, so it costs more time on Kronos to do something advanced.

take a look at the touchscreen interface Korg uses for Karma on the ipad, it works much more natural then on the K. Or just look at the Waldorf Quantum, which utilizes the touchscreen in an awesome way...


There's plenty of synth engines that could be added to the Kronos. It doesn't have every possible digital technique for synthesis. Take additive synthesis/resynthesis for instance. Taking a sample and breaking it down into its harmonic components could open up a whole new world for hardware synth players. It's polyphony is getting dated too. With the newer faster processors and large amounts of SSD memory getting cheaper, there's room for a hardware update. It might even be a good idea for Korg to do some research of the newer FPGA processors to see if there would be an advantage to using them in a newer version of the Kronos.


2 words:

OS Programming

Thats the enabler and the structure for the wish list features.

I haven't seen anyone evaluate this. Likely software developer territory. Linux and other skills.

I believe Korg has a staff of software engineers.
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