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miden
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: Play mode "quieter" than Sequencer? |
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Just went in to edit some MIDI tracks and I found that the parts are louder (exactly the same settings) in Sequencer mode, than when going back and playing the same song in Song Play mode.
About 7 dB difference! On the mixer (in sequencer mode) the bars nudge the red zone, in Song play mode it is about 3 to four bars below this.
Any ideas of why this would be? MAXX is all off, volume settings are all the same, master out is the same balance knob is the same....
I'm curious. Makes it difficult to setup songs for live when there is such a discrepancy. |
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Sam CA
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Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 3990
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, this is always been the case...going back to the Pa800. That's exactly how it was. Obviously it's intentional but not sure why. Maybe they wanted to leave some headroom in case the 2nd player is used simultaneously?
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Sam
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miden
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Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah possibly Sam - I noticed it at a gig the other night and I was wondering why I had to boost those songs that were using MIDI files...I discovered this by accident really.
If it is intentional, it makes it really difficult, especially when any changes to MIDI files in Song Play mode, don't get saved in the Songbook Entry. It just reverts to the stored MIDI file data every time you load the song.
If it WAS saved in the Songbook file it wouldn't be as big an issue I don't think. |
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miden
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1984
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Just figured it out! I had changed the value of the Balance Knob to Accomp/Song Volume....but left the actual control in the centre postion (from having it set as Accomp/Song-Key Balance) if I turn it to full on, the MIDI tracks play as they do in Sequencer mode.
Doesn't leave any option for actually reducing a backing track live if it is accidentally set to high at setup, but at least it can turn it down.
Okay, that's that sorted! |
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RC
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Joined: 04 Oct 2011
Posts: 139
Location: Worthington, Pa
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I have noticed on both the 3x and the 4x. The first time I go into the keyboard from song book playing a midi song, the sound is lower I have to take the volume knob turn it back and then up again and the loudness comes back and stays. This is evertime I start the keyboard up. I hope every one understands what I mean. |
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Sam CA
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Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 3990
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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ok, just tried it again on a Pa800 and the volume is way louder for the same midi file in Sequencer mode. There's nothing to adjust, so I always assumed this was intended. I almost never use the sequencer mode because I make all my midi files in Pro Tools. I've never used Sonbook either
Are you getting the same exact loudness in both modes now?
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Sam
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Play mode "quieter" than Sequencer? |
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| miden wrote: | | ... edit some MIDI tracks and I found that the parts are louder (exactly the same settings) in Sequencer mode, than when going back and playing the same song in Song Play mode ... |
Since I known Pa keyboards, SMFs has been played in sequencer-mode different than in songplay. That is because SMFs once written in Pa-Keyboards are using a SysEx-Header, taken from the current setting of the songplay preferences memorized in the Globals.
If a SMF contains only some few parts of such a SysEx-Header a Pa-Keyboard also completes the missing parameters from the song preferences of the Globals before rewriting a SMF. So sometimes different SysEx-Headers exists in SMFs of users that are using Midi Songs from different sources.
In songplay mode the track parameters of the SysEx header stored in the SMF - stemming from Globals or directly set with SysExs - are used. This SysEx-header is not used in sequencer mode.
If using SMFs without Pa-SysEx-Header (SMF was not written with a Pa-Keyboard, but maybe with ProTools) in songplay-mode Pa-songplayer will use its songplay-preferences stored in globals.
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Unfortunately, the Korg SysEx headers are nowhere published, you have to analyze them yourself, if you want to edit them specifically and do not want to take over directly from the Globals. SMFs can be created with different sysExs by storing several different preferences in the globals.
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Also Preferences of the General Controls (like the Seq.2 FX Mode) are suitable that SMFs will sound differently in the Songplay-Mode than in the Sequencer-Mode.
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That there are these differences when playing in the songplay mode and sequencer mode, at least in manuals of the earlier models are mentioned.
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For me SysEx-Headers are precious (but complicated to use) for optimizing track parameters of Pa-Keyboards, like Optimizer-Software do partially with EQ-settings, but there are much more track-parameters to be set with specific SysEx-Header for Pa-Keyboards like Korg do with its demo-songs!
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Sam CA
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 3990
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Then I'm not going crazy. I've had this volume difference on the Pa800, Pa3x and now the Pa4x. I make my own midi files from scratch...literally! With this explanation, I'm convinced this is not 'intentional'. So it has to do with how the midi files are read and how DAWs are exporting the files.
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Sam
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