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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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For some reason I thought I'd replied here saying that I enjoyed "Going Places" but I guess I didn't. So nice work! 
From my point of view, it seems like this topic is worth continuing to explore. I feel like there are just some things that I'm missing about KARMA that would make a light bulb go off and make big difference in my "practical" use of it, similar to how SeedyLee's sequencer tips post did for me with the K's sequencer.
So, none of what follows is bashing on KARMA because I think it's really cool, and one of the things that makes the Kronos special. But they are things that from a newer user's perspective seem like an obstacle to "practicality."
There are, like 2000 factory KARMA presets. I feel like 1 or 5 of them contain something that would spice up my song and fit it well. But which 1 or 5 of those 2,000, I don't know. I can make some educated guesses from the category and name, but it's kind of a time consuming process to audition them and adjust the parameters to see if they're a good fit.
Most of the RTC models for melodic style GEs have like 4 of the 16 controls dedicated to pitch bend effects. The pitch bending stuff is really cool. Some of it would be very difficult or impossible to play. But for me, it's probably not something I want to use on 95% or even 10% of my songs. It's probably a little too dramatic and would get cliche if I used it all the time. But yet none of the preset melodic RTC models have a control for the rate at which notes are generated (e.g. 1/4 note, 16th note, etc.). From watching Qui Robinez's videos, I think at least some of the GEs have a parameter that controls that in the first "visible" 32 params, so it can be mapped to a hardware slider. But it's not a default control. To me that would seem more "practical" than pitch bend controls on all of them. I guess I could go through and remap a bunch and save them that way as user presets...
So these are the types of things that leave me scratching my head a bit and keep me from plugging in a KARMA GE for immediate practical use. I guess maybe I just need more time with it, but any tips appreciated! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Lightbringer wrote: | For some reason I thought I'd replied here saying that I enjoyed "Going Places" but I guess I didn't. So nice work!
From my point of view, it seems like this topic is worth continuing to explore. I feel like there are just some things that I'm missing about KARMA that would make a light bulb go off and make big difference in my "practical" use of it, similar to how SeedyLee's sequencer tips post did for me with the K's sequencer.
So, none of what follows is bashing on KARMA because I think it's really cool, and one of the things that makes the Kronos special. But they are things that from a newer user's perspective seem like an obstacle to "practicality."
There are, like 2000 factory KARMA presets. I feel like 1 or 5 of them contain something that would spice up my song and fit it well. But which 1 or 5 of those 2,000, I don't know. I can make some educated guesses from the category and name, but it's kind of a time consuming process to audition them and adjust the parameters to see if they're a good fit.
Most of the RTC models for melodic style GEs have like 4 of the 16 controls dedicated to pitch bend effects. The pitch bending stuff is really cool. Some of it would be very difficult or impossible to play. But for me, it's probably not something I want to use on 95% or even 10% of my songs. It's probably a little too dramatic and would get cliche if I used it all the time. But yet none of the preset melodic RTC models have a control for the rate at which notes are generated (e.g. 1/4 note, 16th note, etc.). From watching Qui Robinez's videos, I think at least some of the GEs have a parameter that controls that in the first "visible" 32 params, so it can be mapped to a hardware slider. But it's not a default control. To me that would seem more "practical" than pitch bend controls on all of them. I guess I could go through and remap a bunch and save them that way as user presets...
So these are the types of things that leave me scratching my head a bit and keep me from plugging in a KARMA GE for immediate practical use. I guess maybe I just need more time with it, but any tips appreciated! |
I am glad you enjoyed "Going Places'. Thats my Karma showcase for drums/bass and some synth. If you ask how I did it, I don't recall and I would have to go back in and dis-assemble.
If I were you, or any new K owner, and I was determined to find a practical way to use Karma, I would start with 'my ' primary instrument.
Thats the opposite of a Karma loaded Combi. That is a total end result. Almost like starting to read the last chapter of a complex book and trying to understand the prior chapters since you haven't read them.
Lets say your strength is bass guitar. Run thru the various bass guitars where Karma is applied and see if you hit a groove. From there add your drum track.
Soon you will be off to the races. Its experimenting but its a good start.
Copy that good start into the SEQ and record it before you lose that
Don't over think it or get lost in multiple instruments just yet.
BTW, its shameless plug time. My last song " Sahara " used a touch of Karma
for distorted guitar parts.
You will hear Karma syncopated riffing as a support track. That part
is an example how I use Karma as a way to add spice to a song.
Sahara is my strongest song at 149 listens. Using Karma for distorted guitar
riffing made it more interesting IMO.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Well, make it 150. No harm in some shameless plugs. It's relevant! Another good tune. Yep, I can hear where Karma is making the guitar very intricate. Really like the way the song reprises at the end.
Good advice on Karma. I guess that's what I've been trying to do, though I'm not sure I have a primary instrument. I tend to dabble in lots of instruments.
I guess it's just a matter of more time and becoming really familiar with the GEs that are available. I guess really everything in the Kronos is that way - there's so much "content" in there that you have to have some familiarity with to make the most of the instrument as a whole. The Karma GEs just seem to be intensified in that regard, I guess, due to their complexity. |
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CharlesFerraro
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 955
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Your Practical use of Karma |
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| Lightbringer wrote: | | One thing that I think makes it a bit tough to put into practical use is the inability to define the core note/rhythm patterns that are used. |
As far as the core notes go, KARMA will create what's called a Note Series that is determined by the chord you play. KARMA has various ways of picking notes to play from that Note Series. Having the software would help make that concept more clear but it's not too crazy to wrap your head around. Anyway you'll find a parameter called Note Scale Type on some RTC Models which will be mapped to KARMA Switch 2. That control will make KARMA change between generating a Scalic Note Series or a series that is made out of the exact notes you play.
For example, the first GE 0000 Arp Model 01 Up/Dn is of the CL1 RTC Model type. All CL1 RTC Models have that Note Scale Type control. The regular way KARMA will generate notes will be based on the exact notes you play. So hitting a C in the case of that arp GE will make KARMA arpeggiate C's in octaves. Hitting a C and D will make KARMA arpeggiate C's and D's in octaves. Change the Note Scale Type though and hitting a C will make KARMA arpeggiate a C major pentatonic scale.
There are many more aspects to note generation but that would pretty much involve explaining KARMA almost in it's entirety so let's leave the core notes explanation there.
For rhythm patterns you'll want to check out Slider 2 on most RTC Model types. The Rhythm Pattern slider goes from faster note values at the bottom to slower note values at the top. There are other controls to help with adjusting the rhythm pattern as well like using the Velocity Accents control slider to dropout notes, or adjusting the Rhythm Swing % with Slider 1.
For an excellent list of RTC Model controls consult the following resource: karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:rtc-model-all-layouts
The various control types are color coded on those charts too which is super convenient.
That all being said it's not as direct as say creating a user drum pattern with RPPR. But the purpose of KARMA is for designing an interactive algorithm rather than creating a static sequence.
| Lightbringer wrote: | | I still find myself wondering what can only be done with the software vs. on the Kronos directly (so far the MIDI import is the only thing I've identified, though I'm sure there must be more). |
The software let's you create custom GE's. Not just from importing a MIDI file but also from raw programming. Honestly it's easier to just program in the pattern you want than it is to deal with the import editor imo. You can also setup your own Real-Time Controls instead of depending on the stock RTC Model types.
| Lightbringer wrote: | | I'm sure Charles Ferraro's series will be great if I decide to buy the KK software. |
Part of me regrets not making the series with the Kronos Editor/Librarian software since that editor is a reflection of what's on the Kronos screen. None the less, 99% of everything in the series so far can be done on the Kronos as I haven't gotten into much that's specific to the software alone. Someday I'll offer videos on the GE Editor window which is the real meat and potatoes of KARMA programming. The GE Editor window is the one that includes all the functions that are mainly working behind the scenes and aren't accessible from the Kronos itself other than through the RTC models or RTP page.
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paypal.me/CharlesFerraro |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Charles, this is great info! I’ve never seen that part of the Karma wiki with the RTC models defined - super helpful.
After watching parts of your video series, I suspected that you hadn’t covered too much of the Karma Kronos software-only features to date. Now that I know that for sure I’ll watch them all. Really I’m probably going to add the software sooner or later. I guess its just a matter of knowing I’ll have a good chunk of time to spend with it to figure it all out. It looks like something that could take years to master but its probably going to take a few evenings just to get the basics, really. I guess it has some value even just to get a visual on what’s happening with factory GEs though, so maybe sooner is better.
I actually like that you used the KK software here vs. the Kronos LCD or included sysex editor. It’s a nice glimpse into the KK software, and that’s a pretty rare thing to find on YouTube. |
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