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No sound when changing the program until Gch reset

 
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renaud.denis



Joined: 16 Aug 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: No sound when changing the program until Gch reset Reply with quote

Hi,

I have a very strange issue happening for a few days.

Everytime I change the current program (for instance, when I click on another entry of the set list), no sound is produced anymore when I press a key.

In order the get the sound back, in need to change the Global MIDI channel in the Global settings for instance Gch = 2, then back on Gch = 1, so this really looks like that when the problem occurs, it's because the midi signal from the controllers are not sent to the sound generator anymore (at least, not to the proper MIDI channel).

I suspect that this issue happens since I plugged a wireless MIDI USB dongle (from the Alesis Vortex Wireless 2).

However, the dongle is not plugged anymore; neither at startup time or at runtime.

As you can imagine, this is more than annoying: it degrades the experience to such a level my kronos becomes unusable.

For info, I already tried to re-save my global settings / set list several times, with no success. Also, I tried to reboot the device several times as well => no luck.

I must also be specific about the fact that I don't know for sure the issue was caused by the USB dongle. Actually, the issue really happened when I was playing with an AL-1 program, and customizing a lot all the settings of that program. Then suddenly, no sound anymore. Reboot => sound then, no sound anymore. And now there is no sound at all at startup of the workstation. Really weird.

Any idea is welcome,
Renaud
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not knowing what is going on, i would try saving all and backing it up in the SSD and then going to the factory file and loading all of it to overwrite the existing setup.
Get the Global settings and all, loaded from the factory files.

If a full factory load overwriting all your prior setup, does not make a difference, then i would say it is beyond just a setting that was made and can be unmade.
It has to be original factory file with no changes made to the content after the factory.

Not a solution but at least can help categorize the problem towards a direction of focus.
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alland
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Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 497
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more ideas to pinpoint the issue:
- you did not mention OS version, if it is not latest, try upgrade to the latest version
- is this silencing effect related only to MIDI data that flows on the Global channel? You mentioned that no sound is produced when you change "program". Programs send data on the Global midi channel.
-- How about drum track (sends MIDI on channel 10 if not set up otherwise in Global parameters) - (DRM track waits for start trigger from Global channel - if something wrong, it does not start, but if Trigger mode = Start immediately, then drum track starts by just pressing Drum Track button)
-- How about combis + KARMA that send on different channels than Global?
- does Kronos play as expected if MIDI (Gch and other channels) comes in from the external source? Does this playing behave differently when different channels set to Gch and/or before Kronos is "silent" (after you change program)and after you tweak it to play again?
- does Kronos transmit MIDI on Gch as expected (Program mode notes, control signals (joystick, pedal etc), Combi notes that are on Gch etc)? Does this transmitting behave differently when different channels set to Gch and/or before Kronos is "silent" (after you change program) and after you tweak it to play again?
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renaud.denis



Joined: 16 Aug 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I could fix my problem. Sorry guys that I did waste your time.

However, this is an actual issue that deserves to be reported in my opinion.

My guess is that the issue was coming from the AL-1 program I saved. For some reason, that program made the Kronos's Gch bug at some point. I know it sounds weird, but that's what I experienced.

How I fixed it: select a random program in the set list (that I know is ok, like a Piano program for instance), then reboot the kronos (I'm in the mode where the last program / set list is restored at startup) so I'm sure the program is never loaded at startup. After that, I deleted the set list entry on the AL-1 program I suspected to be buggy, then I deleted the Program itself. Then I restarted the Kronos.

After that, I couldn't reproduce the bug anymore.

Again, many thanks for your ideas.
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alland
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Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 497
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Could you reproduce this AL-1 setting that you think messes Gch?
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renaud.denis



Joined: 16 Aug 2017
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I got rid of this, sorry.

But basically I wanted to create my own patch of a saw/pulse lead sound, very customizable in the tone adjust and karma sections, so I can play some Cory Henry -like Jazz Fusion leads.

The basic patch was a single saw/pulse oscillator, with just a slight cut-off on the default low-pass filter. Osc 2, Sub-Osc, etc. all off in the mixer section.

I started to play with the RT Kontrol / Karma section, then I fell back on the tone adjust section.

2 IFXs: stereo chorus and o-verb mapped on knob 7 and 8 (midi cc#xy)
Waveform variation on knob 5, pulse width on slider 5
Cut off, resonance, amp env attack, amp env release on knobs 1, 2, 3, 4 (midi cc#xy).

The program was added in a set list right at the beginning of the program creation.

I was just about setting a pitch lfo, with a fade time on knob 6 and slider 6 when the sound dropped for the first time.

Problems started here.

I don't remember if the USB dongle was plugged when I created the patch, but I'm 70% confident it was.
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LZ
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Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 571
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess, I would say Karma was re-channelizing the MIDI data.

I've done this before (on purpose) so that local controls can modify sounds in a different channel of a combi being controlled by another keyboard. For instance foot pedal plugged into the Kronos controlling volume of an organ patch played on my lower tier controlling an organ patch in the Kronos.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But how does a setting in one program have a global effect that carries into other programs?
I looked at setlist mode to see if it has a Midi channel setting edit access for the entire setlist.

But then when Alesis wireless midi was involved, it very well could have changed things in different ways, with rougue messages or messages applied in ways that kronos is not designed to work with.

I heard alesis made a real midi whiz board that years later still is hard to beat, and then some of the midi capabilites in Roland and Kurzweil that kronos has to use Karma to barely make a half measure simulation.

I wont be surprised if kronos can be hacked by such messages.
This kind of midi channel felxbility exists in Kurzweils, Roland and maybe Alesis. Not normal for Kronos to change midi channel like that, but what if some messages were sent from Alesis and bypassed Kronos accesible limits?

It may be a clue to kronos system being just a few alterations away from having such capabilities but they were just left out despite the frame work being there to make it happen.

Still no clue but i am entertaining that Alesis dongle dropped a hack into the system.
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