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Anybody have have 5 user banks they don't need ?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:24 am    Post subject: Anybody have have 5 user banks they don't need ? Reply with quote

My question is mostly related to other posts about the lack of user banks.

With the clock ticking ( 2 days left) on the 33% discount to 3rd party sample libs, I am carefully seeing how I can manage a bunch of new sounds.

A symphonic sample libs looks like a great buy- except for 1 big problem-

It occupies 5 Program User banks, AA to EE.
640 new Programs (!)

I bet many of you have handled this challenge. With some juggling,
I can free up 2 user banks, but not 5.

I know, just buy a 2nd Kronos. Right ?
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SeedyLee
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than loading each program into a bank and having them always available, my approach is to ensure that the supporting resources (wave sequences, drumkits etc) are always available and audition and load as-needed from the PCG file.

    Take a backup of your Kronos into a PCG

    Load each library PCG, one by one

    Use the SoundQuest Editor (or PCG Tools) to consolidate wave sequences and drum kits. Often a PCG will overwrite a complete wave sequence or drum kit bank, but not occupy all of it. Many PCGs also use the same destination bank (often User-G), so loading successive PCGs overwrites the prior PCG's data. Using the editor to move wave sequences and drum kits into another bank frees up slots and also leaves User-G free for loading the next bank.

    This step take some planning. It's useful to go through all your PCGs ahead of time to determine where their dependant wave sequences and drum kits will be loaded. This can be done in Disk Mode by selecting the PCG and pressing "Open" rather than "Load".


    When you move the wave sequences and drum kits using the editor or PCG Tools, the dependant programs will be updated to point to the new location - but only if you use "Swap" in the editor.


    Save the Programs into a new PCG. The idea is that the wave sequences and drum kits can reside permanantly on the Kronos, but when youload your new, remapped PCG, you can load it into any bank or location, or audition it directly from disk, and the required resources will be there.


I then tend to find I can really easily load just the programs I need for a particular project or set easily, without having to have them all loaded all the time.
Hope that helps!
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amit
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no easy way.

However there are a few tricks that you can do.
I have formed a habit of not storing anything in the USER-G bank and have it for HD engine.
By not storing I mean this bank works as a project bank / volatile memory.


1: Backup All your Banks (programs /combis / wae seq etc) to a pcg file.
2: Load the Library.
3: Browse through the patches you need and copy them to User G Bank.
4: Save User-G bank. to a separate PCG file
5: Load any other libraries and repeat 2 - 4.
6: Load Back your backup Bank.
7: Load your project PCG (User Bank G)
Too much work but that kinda works.
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exsequor699
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, which library occupies 5 banks? Shocked

About your subject, at the moment there aren’t many options available. In my case I have had to substitute factory banks and exs to load my various purchased libraries. Lot of work but worth it, for me anyways.


Last edited by exsequor699 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pete.m
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say that I've ever found it a problem. In reality, you're never going to use many of the patches in a sample library - so many of them are nearly identical, or just not what you are after. So I audition them, and just load the patches I want. There is generally enough space in my PCG banks, because I have gradually worked on them down the years to remove what I feel are the superfluous sounds - how many electric pianos do you really use...20, 50, 100?

You can always set up multiple PCGs, of course.

Having said all that, I do wish I could re-use the GM banks. I don't think I have ever used a GM sound.
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DeltaJockey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Greg, I have the same question...which library takes 5 banks?

I've bought a few Kapro's over the time, and I have had to resort to the methods outlined above.
It gets to the point where as long as you've got the disk space to install the samples, just loading some separate pcg's is the final solution, if you don't pick just your favourites out of them.
I've gone through like others, mixing and matching just the programs I want, which is tedious, but I have optimised my main pcg with only 39meg ram left so pretty much a fully loaded set.

It becomes a bit trickier when I have to juggle combis, as I have to remap wavseq and drum patterns, and I think most of us have more spare combi slots than prog slots.

For me it's been particularly annoying when some of the Kapro libraries have overlapping programs and samples between full and private collection, and you want to load the full set of both libraries without editing.
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Anybody have have 5 user banks they don't need ? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
It occupies 5 Program User banks, AA to EE

This by definition in Kronos 2 means that factory setup will not work properly anymore , since U_AA & U_BB participate in
factory Combis !
In this case you have to use 2 sets of PCG & KSC files , either for factory setup nor for 3rd party library , under the same K2.
On the other hand we also have a Ram limit with Preload.KSC loaded , around 700 Mb in K2 , that is the overall limit of 3rd
party libraries (among only 5 free Program Banks) , with all factory resources working.

It's obviously a real mess and hard work to merge 2 Setups to fit in one , concerning the fact that you can't successfully
re-map complex premium EXs with Combis ,WS and sophisticated development , therefore 3rd party developers support
should be for granted in order to customize your needed setup in case of EXs bundles , like WavesArt does.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeedyLee wrote:
Rather than loading each program into a bank and having them always available, my approach is to ensure that the supporting resources (wave sequences, drumkits etc) are always available and audition and load as-needed from the PCG file.

    Take a backup of your Kronos into a PCG

    Load each library PCG, one by one

[list]Use the SoundQuest Editor (or PCG Tools) to consolidate wave sequences and drum kits. ps!


once again, I am not aware of PCG tools for us mac people

I suppose I should look into the editor. It would have to be bug free

Your strategy is solid, thanks
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeltaJockey wrote:
Yes Greg, I have the same question...which library takes 5 banks?

I've bought a few Kapro's over the time, and I have had to resort to the methods outlined above.
It gets to the point where as long as you've got the disk space to install the samples, just loading some separate pcg's is the final solution, if you don't pick just your favourites out of them.
I've gone through like others, mixing and matching just the programs I want, which is tedious, but I have optimised my main pcg with only 39meg ram left so pretty much a fully loaded set.

It becomes a bit trickier when I have to juggle combis, as I have to remap wavseq and drum patterns, and I think most of us have more spare combi slots than prog slots.

For me it's been particularly annoying when some of the Kapro libraries have overlapping programs and samples between full and private collection, and you want to load the full set of both libraries without editing.


Agree the Kapro libraries most are pretty good and I just pick my favs and load into banks that I have free which are none now unless I delete a bank and don't wanna remap for combi purposes. I found I only use about half of the patches I purchase so I go thru them and assign them to open banks after I clean up or delete some libraries I don't use anymore. I spent alot of time this weekend figuring the best way that works for me. Like Amit says I have userbank G open but after this last purchase it is full now unless I delete another bank and move programs around. This file management is a PITA I spent alot of time figuring the easiest way to route my sounds this weekend and yesterday I was done at last. Another Kronos is probably easier a 61 key to go with the 88 key.

Greg I started to email you and ask if you were purchasing libraries also. I couldn't resist the discount.

I find deleting the programs that I know I will not most likely use I a great help.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit wrote:
There is no easy way.

However there are a few tricks that you can do.
I have formed a habit of not storing anything in the USER-G bank and have it for HD engine.
By not storing I mean this bank works as a project bank / volatile memory.


1: Backup All your Banks (programs /combis / wae seq etc) to a pcg file.
2: Load the Library.
3: Browse through the patches you need and copy them to User G Bank.
4: Save User-G bank. to a separate PCG file
5: Load any other libraries and repeat 2 - 4.
6: Load Back your backup Bank.
7: Load your project PCG (User Bank G)
Too much work but that kinda works.


I like that. I also keep User G wide open.

And use Custom PCG files. Load as needed.

I am a home studio musician. There is so much good stuff
available, VI's, etc.

And I have 40 originals and 10 covers. This is my top 50
that I have toiled over for some time. I could spend 6 months
swapping out the dated Kronos programs with better sounds.
( and from other sources).

This recorded material is my music bottom line.

I need to give this more thought. Its tempting
to continue to add more stuff when I really should be
subtracting(unload Programs/combis) from my Kronos.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exsequor699 wrote:
Just curious, which library occupies 5 banks? Shocked

About your subject, at the moment there aren’t many options available. In my case I have had to substituted factory banks and exs to load my various purchased libraries. Lot of work but worth it, for me anyways.


Karo EXs50. I have mostly worn out the factory orchestra/string sounds.

Exs 50 has 256 Combis. Likely there is a dependency to load all Program banks
User AA- User EE for the combis to work.

Your approach to swap out factory banks sounds wise, given the 3rd party stuff is stronger.

My playing and needs has evolved over the years. For example, 7 yrs ago, I had
little interest in ambient drums. These days, I find them useful.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeltaJockey wrote:
Yes Greg, I have the same question...which library takes 5 banks?

I've bought a few Kapro's over the time, and I have had to resort to the methods outlined above.
It gets to the point where as long as you've got the disk space to install the samples, just loading some separate pcg's is the final solution, if you don't pick just your favourites out of them.
I've gone through like others, mixing and matching just the programs I want, which is tedious, but I have optimised my main pcg with only 39meg ram left so pretty much a fully loaded set.

It becomes a bit trickier when I have to juggle combis, as I have to remap wavseq and drum patterns, and I think most of us have more spare combi slots than prog slots.

For me it's been particularly annoying when some of the Kapro libraries have overlapping programs and samples between full and private collection, and you want to load the full set of both libraries without editing.


Karo EXs50. I think its relatively inexpensive - not trying to sell it. Just
might be a decent short term solution to improve on what I currently use.

The more I dig into this, and see the tedious work, and various limits, and gotchas, and the expense/investment,age of Kronos I might apply the breaks.

There are other choices(and direction) which might be better long term.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Anybody have have 5 user banks they don't need ? Reply with quote

AntonySharmman wrote:
GregC wrote:
It occupies 5 Program User banks, AA to EE

This by definition in Kronos 2 means that factory setup will not work properly anymore , since U_AA & U_BB participate in
factory Combis !
In this case you have to use 2 sets of PCG & KSC files , either for factory setup nor for 3rd party library , under the same K2.
On the other hand we also have a Ram limit with Preload.KSC loaded , around 700 Mb in K2 , that is the overall limit of 3rd
party libraries (among only 5 free Program Banks) , with all factory resources working.

It's obviously a real mess and hard work to merge 2 Setups to fit in one , concerning the fact that you can't successfully
re-map complex premium EXs with Combis ,WS and sophisticated development , therefore 3rd party developers support
should be for granted in order to customize your needed setup in case of EXs bundles , like WavesArt does.


I agree. Its a mess - esp if the musician wants quality, and time is a constraint. Its not always about the money. For me, its utility- getting good use over 2-3 years.

Here is the elephant in the room- my Kronos is becoming obsolete in terms
of realistic expansion.
My context is home studio musician. Zero plans to gig.

Kronos is not obsolete for the keyboard player doing covers, playing blues, top 40, tribute bands, etc.

Context of how you use an expensive keyboard should be #1.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pete.m wrote:
just not what you are after. So I audition them, and just load the patches I want. There is generally enough space in my PCG banks, because I have gradually worked on them down the years to remove what I feel are the superfluous sounds - how many electric pianos do you really use...20, 50, 100?

You can always set up multiple PCGs, of course.

.


EPs are a good example. But maybe not in what you think.

There are 5 different Fender Rhodes. ( that number by memory)

There is the CP 70. There are 2 Wurlis.

There is the clavinet. A planet.

Thats 10 already. And we know about Fx. And attack or bite.
There is quite a bit of personalization with FX and attack on EP's.

I think 25 EP programs is minimal if you prefer a diverse palette of EP's

But if you are sure you never need them, sure, you can be as sparse as per
your preference/likes/dislikes.
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exsequor699
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if there are factory programs that you like/use you can relocated some of them in another bank. Hope you can sort things out.
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