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Crashing and burning hard with my Kronos
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blazerunner



Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Crashing and burning hard with my Kronos Reply with quote

I brought a Kronos7 back in December as an upgrade from my partner of 19 years my Triton. It hurts to say it but I'm starting to feel the buyers remorse. In the months that I've had it I just can't sit down and get into it without pulling my hair or screaming in my head. I usually end up turning it on and playing the piano and saying "wow this piano sounds good" and then I turn it off. It's like you need to be a computer engineer to navigate through this thing. I click a menu then another menu pops up with more menu options and screens with more options on them and I'm just baffled and confused. I've watched some vids and tried to read the manual and it left me more confused than when I first started.

I brought other synths in the time I purchased the Kronos. A Prophet and an MS-20. All of these felt so fluent to play like an instrument should be and I've been making patch after patch on all of them but my Kronos has just been collecting dust. I actually ended up buying the MS-20mini because the Kronos version made me so red trying to figure it.

This weekend I've been trying to make a song and use the sequencer. It ended with me turning it off and putting the Keyboard cover back on it. I can't for the life of me figure out how Korg could make a keyboard that's so far from the playing experience of a musician. It doesn't inspire me it discourages me.

I don't want to give up on it but dang I brought this to make music with and that's been the last thing I've done with it. When I got my Triton I couldn't turn it off. I spent days and nights playing and making music with it with a giant grin on my face but the Kronos I honestly can't wait to hit the power button on the back.
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Liviou2004
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 471
Location: Fontainebleau - France

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people who buy the Kronos do make an essential error : they think they buy a synth ! Kronos is not a synth, not only, it is a worstation and, in some extent, it is full studio. So they ended frustrated, overwhelmed and frightened by the beast.

Just imagine a room containing :

- 9 instruments whose pianos, electric pianos, organs, several synths, ect.
- A multitracks recorder (32 tracks actually)
- a 32 tracks complete mixer
- a 197 effects rack
- A Sampler
- not to forget all the cables (jack, midi and so on)

And now, with a magic wand, you compress all that stuff in one single unit.

Well, you have build a Kronos !

That's the reason why all the Kronos guides reach near of 2,000 pages !

So, when you're about to switch your Kronos on, I suggest you to imagine you're coming in that room and wonder "what do I want to do ? Playing on my DX7 ? my MS-20 ? Just try my effects unit ? Playing piano and just record on the fly ?..."
You must have all the guides next to you.

I began to have fun with the Kronos when I stopped to use it as a single instrument.
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pete.m
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Blazerunner,

Like you, I used a Triton for several years (and the Trinity before that). I have to admit that I don't understand why you are so confused by the Kronos' sequencer, since it is so close to that of the Triton. I'm no whizzkid, but I was immediately able to make music on it without feeling like the tech got in the way. The major difference is that you have the additional benefit of audio tracks, but you don't need to engage with audio recording if it doesn't suit you.

Aside from that, Liviou is right with his advice about viewing the Kronos in a slightly different way - as he says, it gives you an incredibly-enhanced range of synthesis options compared to the Kronos. But my comments about the Triton's sequencer also apply to its range of sounds - in essence, you just have a bank of sounds to choose from for your songs, and you don't necessarily need to dive under the hood and get too intricate with them until you want to and you have given yourself a little time to get comfortable with it. If you wish to broaden your palette in the meantime, there are many banks of PCGs - free, or commercially available - around to change things for you.

I do understand how you might feel overawed by the Kronos, because it does go much deeper than the Triton. But, fundamentally, it can function just like a radically souped-up Triton if you want and so I urge you to just pitch in and enjoy it. It will take you a while to get the full measure of it, but you'll be glad you did. Possibly, buying another two new synths at the same time - ones that offer immediate gratification - has also been an unnecessary diversion. Keep plugging away, and it will all work out in the end.
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blazerunner



Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. I don't hate the Kronos I just am having a rough time trying to understand it. I've been with my Triton for 19 years and in those 19 years I was faithful to her. I never owned another keyboard (well except for the microkorg if that counts). I could navigate that keyboard blind folded. Tweak sounds to the point you wouldn't even realize it was a Triton making them. I guess I just want to have that same relationship with the Kronos but it's almost 20 years of tech into the future so it hasn't been easy.

I really want to learn it but finding a source for Kronos dummies 101 is hard. I can see the "concepts" that trickled down from the Triton but it's very different. I sometimes find myself just hoping off the Kronos to play my Triton that's resting above it. It dents my pride to admit that the Kronos has defeated me but this is the only place I could think where folks have the same passions for Korg. I know it's not the Kronos it's me. I just need to find a good source of info to step by step learn this thing at the pace of a turtle.
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 375

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you watched the Korg videos ? They offer a good starting point to use most important features. Don't worry if you find the beast intimidating. It is for most if not all users at first. The great news is that you have a machine that offers near infinite possibilities. I much prefer that than being stuck with a couple of dozen parameters as on most digital pianos, etc.

There are numerous videos made by users and also Kronos resources online that can help you depending what you want to accomplish.
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 7129
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
Thanks for the responses. I don't hate the Kronos I just am having a rough time trying to understand it. I've been with my Triton for 19 years and in those 19 years I was faithful to her. I never owned another keyboard (well except for the microkorg if that counts). I could navigate that keyboard blind folded. Tweak sounds to the point you wouldn't even realize it was a Triton making them. I guess I just want to have that same relationship with the Kronos but it's almost 20 years of tech into the future so it hasn't been easy.

I really want to learn it but finding a source for Kronos dummies 101 is hard. I can see the "concepts" that trickled down from the Triton but it's very different. I sometimes find myself just hoping off the Kronos to play my Triton that's resting above it. It dents my pride to admit that the Kronos has defeated me but this is the only place I could think where folks have the same passions for Korg. I know it's not the Kronos it's me. I just need to find a good source of info to step by step learn this thing at the pace of a turtle.


It can be done. I had a friend who was lost on the K. We got together and worked on 1 mode at a time. We spent 3 months on Program mode and nothing else. In the beginning, he didn't have a navigation approach. When you have a musical idea, typically there are 5 or 6 steps you have to execute to get a result.

He also had several distractions ( barking dogs, ringing cell phones, 60" TV)
in the room where he played his K. He finally removed the distractions which was half the problem.

Its hard to be specific on what it is with you and your K. Put aside your frustration and start fresh. Make your environment work 100%. No clutter.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 998

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i have forgotten more quirks and features of kronos than i can remember.
Have gone through more of kronos than i will ever need, and did so just to get a better grasp of what i am working with, and i have done that several times over but still have to go back to Parameter guide often to get my brain memory flowing again.
A lot to remember and hard to remember if you don’t use kronos enough.
Main reason i stay on the forum often is because i am often away from kronos not spending much time with my kronos turned on, like right now i am in one country while kronos is in another, away for 5-6 months at a time. Following forum threads keeps fresh my brain memory for Kronos.

I have to say, i came from Triton Extreme to Kronos and even went 4 years without any workstation or synth between Triton and Kronos.
And still my Triton experience made my hop onto Kronos a lot easier. Program mode, Combi mode, sequencer and sampling mode was right where i left off at Triton Extreme, and was not too much for me to catch up on the improvements and expansions in each of the modes.
Maybe HD-1 took the most learning effort in Program mode.
I hardly do EXi synth tweaking to be bothered by the complexity of STR-1,
but i still love using the STR-1 presets.
I put the most effort learning Karma i think, because kronos was my first experience with karma.
That opened the door for me to become much better at Midi setups.

After that came routing, control surface assignability and AMS. Effects have to go through routing, outputs can be routed.. And i never did that stuff in Triton, i just simply changed the already routed effects of presets when i had triton.
Also assignable controls i almost never used on Triton. Never used AMS in triton either. Never used midi cable, 5 pin nor USB. Just a sustain pedal on triton, output cables and my storage media inserted for media/disk mode.

I hardly dug deep into my triton and still it was no problem hopping right onto kronos and being able to go through presets and start customizing my own programs and Combis, and right away being able to figure out copying my edited programs and combis to new slots so the prest version does not get overwritten.
One thing for sure, i was not a very enlightened workstation or synth user when i had triton nor when i got kronos. All that came together because of Kronos. I was not going to have spent all that money on Kronos and let it take away from me rather than enhance my keyboarding experience.
Now, i can even look at other makes and models or computer software, i have never used, understand their features to know what i am dealng with under the hood.

I agree, it may be you... But not because you mentally cannot. Especially with your music and gear background plus collection of other synths or workstations.
How busy a work day and family time among a life of being a gigging musician with sets or projects to rehearse and focus on?
I was able to get ahead on kronos because of enough days with no such thing as projects, gigs, work or family. Days i could make my head hurt on kronos digging, and then fall on the bed to relax and hop back on kronos once my nerves relaxed.
I know, even if it took 20 years for me, learning one feature every few days, i would still hold on to Kronos for the learning experience that reaches so deep into music making that users can become adept at most aspects of the music engineering profession. Even when they step off of kronos and into any random studio or set stage.
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DAZZA3483



Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Posts: 16
Location: Blackburn,England.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The video tutorials are good but sometimes don't go deep enough for the uninitiated.
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Last edited by DAZZA3483 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DAZZA3483



Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Posts: 16
Location: Blackburn,England.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
I really want to learn it but finding a source for Kronos dummies 101 is hard..


I agree wholeheartedly,I wish I could find one too,would be fantastic if someone could write a book about this beast
Showing its real capabilities with guided walkthrough examples.

One can but hope.
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BobTheDog
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Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1480

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Crashing and burning hard with my Kronos Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
It's like you need to be a computer engineer to navigate through this thing.


I am a computer engineer and it confused the hell out of me when I got it as well.

I would recommend Quis videos: https://m.youtube.com/user/qrobinez/playlists

It does all make sense in the end Smile
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benny ray
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Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Posts: 560

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I got my first Kronos Korg had phone support for the Kronos and was really helpful solving issues I had. Korg sadly discontinued this service mostly rely on videos now, etc.
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Rigel
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Joined: 02 Aug 2012
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Location: Izmir, Turkey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just a passing phase. We all have gone through it..
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SeedyLee
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1063
Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best advice I can give is to be methodical. Think about small tasks you want to complete, research them and see them through to conclusion.

It’s a complex beast capable of a vast array of things. It’s definitely worth the investment in time and we’ve all been through the process.
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Current Equipment:
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Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000
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oliv73
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Joined: 10 Sep 2017
Posts: 67
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would appreciate too a "kronos for dummies" book Smile

Someone on this forum wrote that he was selling kronos videos tutorial .
It was quite expensive and don't know if it worth the money ?
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kronos Quick Start Guide can be quite helpful to becoming more familiar with the keyboard. The information in this guide is delivered in manageable chunks. The Operations Guide and Parameter Guide can be referred to for more detailed information, especially as confidence builds.

The most useful sections in the Quick Start Guide are likely to be:
Connections and Power
Selecting Modes
Playing Sounds

As with any subject that has depth to it, understanding the Kronos will develop gradually over time. There is no quick method to "get it all in one go".
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