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Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI
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scottyee
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote



I'd like to trigger these 2 things via foot pedal.

1. Vocal Harmonizer
2. Fill-In

To overcome the limitation of only ONE 'assignable pedal jack' on the PA1000, I hope to be able to program my Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller to the other arranger function via Midi SysEX command or Midi Control Change message. Couldn't find this info in the 1006 page PA1000 user Manual. Can anyone tell me what SysEx or System Control Change Message triggers 'Vocal Harmonizer' and/or 'Fill-in' arranger functions?

Thanks.
Scott Cool
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about Vocal Harmonizer, but here is known PC# controls for Korg PA:
https://performersheaven.com/en/midi-en/pc-in-korg-pa-en
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zionip



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

scottyee wrote:

I'd like to trigger these 2 things via foot pedal.

1. Vocal Harmonizer
2. Fill-In

To overcome the limitation of only ONE 'assignable pedal jack' on the PA1000, I hope to be able to program my Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller to the other arranger function via Midi SysEX command or Midi Control Change message. Couldn't find this info in the 1006 page PA1000 user Manual. Can anyone tell me what SysEx or System Control Change Message triggers 'Vocal Harmonizer' and/or 'Fill-in' arranger functions?

Thanks.
Scott Cool


Hi Scott,

According to PA100 1.2 user manual page 894:
Fill on PA1000 is through Program Changes:

PC Style_Element
87 Fill_1
88 Fill_2
89 Fill_3
90 Fill_4

There is no published MIDI implementation chart for PA1000 although the PA1000 user manual mentions it multiple times. A momentary / latch foot pedal can be plugged into the Assignable Pedal port to trigger harmonizer on/off through Global - Controllers - Foot - Function - Mic Harmony / Double Level.

Since there is no provision for EC5 pedal connection on PA1000, maybe you can also consider using the Assignable Pedal port just for harmonizer on/off, and purchase/use a multi-button MIDI footswitch such as the Behringer FCB1010 or Yamaha MFC-10 for style control related functions.

Discussion thread for Behringer FCB1010 for Pa900:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94958&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Youtube video - How to set FCB1010 to work with Korg Pa600 (CC):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOSKV0eT90

Thanks,
Paul
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

zionip wrote:


Youtube video - How to set FCB1010 to work with Korg Pa600 (CC):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOSKV0eT90

Thanks,
Paul


FCB1010 programming :
https://performersheaven.com/en/resources-en/how-to-en/programming-fcb1010-en
Wink
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scottyee
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nenmikk & Paul (zionip). Thanks for sharing the valuable info. Good to know that the Korg PA1000 supports triggering
fills (Fill_1:PC 87; Fill_2:PC 88; Fill_3:PC 89; Fill_4: PC 90) sent to the keyboard via a remote midi controler. I assume these Program Change numbers are in decimal, so converted to HEX these the Program Change numbers would be

Fill Dec Hex
1 87 57
2 88 58
3 89 59
4 90 5A


To Trigger Fill_1:
F0 00 00 50 04 04 57 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_2
F0 00 00 50 04 04 58 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_3
F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_4
F0 00 00 50 04 04 5A 7F F7

Now I just need to figure out why my Midi Solutions Foot Controller unit doesn't appear to be functioning as when the above program changes are sent from my PC to it via USB Midi Interface, the Midi Solutions unit's activity indicator doesn't light up as it should when data is properly received. Will contact the manufacturer to see if it's operator error or defective unit. Will keep you guys posted.

Scott
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottyee wrote:
Nenmikk & Paul (zionip). Thanks for sharing the valuable info. Good to know that the Korg PA1000 supports triggering
fills (Fill_1:PC 87; Fill_2:PC 88; Fill_3:PC 89; Fill_4: PC 90) sent to the keyboard via a remote midi controler. I assume these Program Change numbers are in decimal, so converted to HEX these the Program Change numbers would be

Fill Dec Hex
1 87 57
2 88 58
3 89 59
4 90 5A


To Trigger Fill_1:
F0 00 00 50 04 04 57 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_2
F0 00 00 50 04 04 58 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_3
F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 7F F7

To Trigger Fill_4
F0 00 00 50 04 04 5A 7F F7

Now I just need to figure out why my Midi Solutions Foot Controller unit doesn't appear to be functioning as when the above program changes are sent from my PC to it via USB Midi Interface, the Midi Solutions unit's activity indicator doesn't light up as it should when data is properly received. Will contact the manufacturer to see if it's operator error or defective unit. Will keep you guys posted.

Scott

You missing 42 7f 60 = ID-SysEx for Korg Pa-Keyboard
check this post:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88355&start=5
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

zionip wrote:
.. is no published MIDI implementation chart for PA1000 although the PA1000 user manual mentions it multiple times. A momentary / latch foot pedal can be plugged into the Assignable Pedal port to trigger harmonizer on/off through Global - Controllers - Foot - Function - Mic Harmony / Double Level. ...


Found implementation chart for Pa1000 as appendix page 1050 + 1051 - but did not found "Global / Controllers / Foot / Function / Mic Harmony / Double Level" in same manual - would be good if this function was implemented with last OS-update (?), even if it has not been documented.

scottyee wrote:
.. need to figure out why my Midi Solutions Foot Controller unit doesn't appear to be functioning as when the above program changes are sent from my PC to it via USB Midi Interface ..


F0 00 00 50 04 04 57 7F F7 is no valid hex-string suitable for switching anything in the Pa-keyboard.

if you want to trigger fill1 send a program-change (status Cnx, value 57x), where n is the send-channel you use and select as control-channel in midi-in of pa-keyboard. same message converting to sysex is not necessary, because triggered event types of MIDI Solutions Footswitch Controller are programmable and include program-change.

In case using channel 16 for program-change triggering fill1 the hex-string is CF 57, converted unnecessarily to sysex for a korg-pa-keyboard the hex-string is F0 42 7F 60 CF 57 F7.

PS: Maybe there are SysExs to trigger functions of VH but are not published by Korg as many other sysexs like sysex-header in each smf, written by a Pa-keyboard. To analyze if VH-settings are taken into account in sysex-header write a smf with pa-sequenzer, change VH-settings and save same smf with another name, compare sysEx headers for deviations then will indicate if written and could be used to use individual sysex for such settings (prospects are rather poor).
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scottyee
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After further testing and then speaking to the' Midi Solutions Footswitch' manufacturer I've now discovered the USB Midi interface (USBMidisport 2x2) I'm used isn't compatible with the Midi Solutions Footswitch unit. I was recommended to get a Roland UM-ONE MK2 instead. Once I receive it I'll try this all again.

I had figured the midi message needed was merely a universally recognized program change (PC) message not a Control Change (CC) or SysEX message requiring SysEx Korg brand/model identifier. Once i receive the Roland UM-ONE MK2 I'll test this again. Thanks. Cool
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

scottyee wrote:
.. I had figured the midi message needed was merely a universally recognized program change (PC) message not a Control Change (CC) or SysEX message requiring SysEx Korg brand/model identifier. ..


As described in the manual, sending the ProgramChanges to the CONTROL channel of Pa-Keyboard is sufficient. For example, if you use channel 16 for this, Pa-Keyboard needs to automatically receive CF 57 to trigger FILL1. No special SysExs is needed for this.

"SolutionFootswitch" only one time is to program for its function to send CF 57 - this happens with a sysex command.

Program-SysEx for "Solution Footswitch" is to transmit from a PC (Midi-Out) to "Solution Footswitch" (Midi-In) with the hex-string F0 00 00 50 04 04 57 0F F7.

Once "Footswitch Solution" has received this SysEx, it is programmed each time pressing a Switch connected to Fsw to automatically send CF 57 to its Midi-Out, that is connected with Midi-IN of Pa-Keyboard.

It is important to set Midi-In Ch16 of Pa-Keyboard to "Control", that is because program-change is recognized for triggering of Fill1.

The unique programming of the "SolutionFootswitch" can be done with SysEx-Send-Feature of Midi-OX, to be connectet with "SolutionFootswitch"-Midi-In.

I have only taken the example of Channel 16. If you would use channel7 for this, then the hex-string F0 00 00 50 04 04 57 06 F7 is to be used and the automatically sent command to trigger the FILL1 is C6 57. Of course then channel7 of Pa-Keyboards Midi-In is to define as "Control"-channel for triggering Fill1!
*
You do not need a special MIDI-USB interface, because using "SolutionFootswitch" use a DIN-cable to connect MIDI-In of "SolutionFootswitch" with Midi-Out of Pa-1000 and a second DIN-cable to connect MIDI-Out of "SolutionFootswitch" with Midi-in of Pa1000.

The first cable only is necessary for the Footswitch Controller to draw power.
Only once to program the Footswitch Controller connect the MIDI Out from your PC-MIDI interface to the MIDI-IN of the FootswitchController. If your PC-Midi interface is USB you can use a cheap USB-to-MIDI-Cable-Converter for this unique procedure of programming.
*
PS: I would be interested to know whether the function "global/controllers/foot/function/mic harmony/Double Level" is available on your Pa1000 and will work with a footswitch - in my manual I do not find this function.
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scottyee
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:

It is important to set Midi-In Ch16 of Pa-Keyboard to "Control", that is because program-change is recognized for triggering of Fill1.


Siebenhirter:
Thanks for clarifying that Program Change needs to be sent on Ch16.
This being the case, to trigger 'Fill_3, the correct midi hex string should now be as follows, right?

F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 0F F7

Siebenhirter. Your advice agrees with what the Midi Solutions Tech Support specialist I spoke earlier to today.The only thing he didn't know was what midi channel to send the message on. Thanks for reminding me to make sure the Pa1000's midi-in channel 16 is set to: 'control'.


siebenhirter wrote:

PS: I would be interested to know whether the function "global/controllers/foot/function/mic harmony/Double Level" is available on your Pa1000 and will work with a footswitch


YES. Cool
Triggering the Vocal Harmonizer via the assignable foot switch is working beautifully on my Pa1000 running OS version 1.20 .

In addition to assigning assigning the Pa1000's assignable footpedal to: Mic Harmony/Double Lead, you must also create a USER Voice Preset
and set the harmony voice volume levels. I set these to -11 to achieve a nice backup balance to my lead voice but you can easily experiment to match your lead voice. I'm able to sing (with no harmony) , then press and keep the pedal pressed when I want the harmonies, and return to hearing my lead voice only when I release the pedal. I'm sure there's a way to change the way the pedal works so the harmony will come on after simply pressing the pedal briefly and then stop the harmony when pressing the pedal briefly again, but I don't know how to change the way mine is working now. Perhaps someone can post how it might be possible to change that though I'm pretty happy with the default setup. Smile
Scott
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zionip



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

[quote="scottyee"]
siebenhirter wrote:

'm sure there's a way to change the way the pedal works so the harmony will come on after simply pressing the pedal briefly and then stop the harmony when pressing the pedal briefly again, but I don't know how to change the way mine is working now.
Scott


Hi Scott,

Since you are using a sustain pedal / momentary type pedal, you have to press down the pedal continuously to activate vocal harmonizer, and release the pedal to deactivate it. DonM prefers using this type of pedal, which includes sustain pedal and momentary pedal like the Boss FS-5U (unlatch type) footswitch.

However, if you use a latch type pedal / footswitch, such as the Boss FS-5L footswitch, you can press once to activate vocal harmonizer, release it and the vocal harmonizer continues to work, then press again (and release) to deactivate vocal harmonizer. The Boss FS-5L footswitch has a red LED and uses battery, so you will have to replace the battery once in a while. Using latch type footswitch usually is much less tiring for your leg.

Thanks,
Paul
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DonM
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FS-5U apparently doesn't need a battery. No light, and it has been hooked up "forever".
I like the fact that it is momentary and triggers harmony only when I hold the button down.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

scottyee wrote:
.. this being the case, to trigger 'Fill_3, the correct midi hex string should now be as follows, right? F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 0F F7 ... reminding me to make sure the Pa1000's midi-in channel 16 is set to: 'control' ...


That hex-string is correct for using ch16 (0Fx), but you can also use each other channel - maybe using ch01 (00x) then hex-string is F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 00 F7 or maybe using ch05 (04x) then hex-string is F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 04 F7. Most important is to set the corresponding Midi-In-Channel of Pa-Keyboard to "Control".

scottyee wrote:
.. triggering the Vocal Harmonizer via the assignable foot switch ...


Thank you for your information about function "MIC Harmony/DoubleLead ".
Which footswitch one use is a matter of taste, because these differ by the function between latching and momentary. MOMENTARY remains in it is ON only as long as it is being compressed (like Sustain-pedal) whereas LATCHING once need to be pressed for ON and again once for OFF (like a light switch or start/stop-switch).

PS: In manual I still only find "Mic Harmony/Double Level" to be assigned to knobs or an expression pedal - is that the function you meant with "MIC Harmony/Double Lead"?
If this is the case, wouldn't it be better to connect an expression pedal to smoothly fade in and out the harmony levels?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
scottyee wrote:
.. this being the case, to trigger 'Fill_3, the correct midi hex string should now be as follows, right? F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 0F F7 ... reminding me to make sure the Pa1000's midi-in channel 16 is set to: 'control' ...


That hex-string is correct for using ch16 (0Fx), but you can also use each other channel - maybe using ch01 (00x) then hex-string is F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 00 F7 or maybe using ch05 (04x) then hex-string is F0 00 00 50 04 04 59 04 F7. Most important is to set the corresponding Midi-In-Channel of Pa-Keyboard to "Control".

scottyee wrote:
.. triggering the Vocal Harmonizer via the assignable foot switch ...


Thank you for your information about function "MIC Harmony/DoubleLead ".
Which footswitch one use is a matter of taste, because these differ by the function between latching and momentary. MOMENTARY remains in it is ON only as long as it is being compressed (like Sustain-pedal) whereas LATCHING once need to be pressed for ON and again once for OFF (like a light switch or start/stop-switch).

PS: In manual I still only find "Mic Harmony/Double Level" to be assigned to knobs or an expression pedal - is that the function you meant with "MIC Harmony/Double Lead"?
If this is the case, wouldn't it be better to connect an expression pedal to smoothly fade in and out the harmony levels?

You can do it either way, but REAL harmony singers don't normally fade in and out. They are either singing or they are not, but I will agree their volume is not always the same, so I will try it both ways.
And, it might well be that the expression pedal is easier to find with a foot than the momentary switch.
The problem I had setting all this up was having to go into the Vocal Presets and edit the harmony volume so it wasn't too loud when activated. The expression pedal would most likely eliminate the need for that.
Of course it would need to be calibrated to be completely OFF when not depressed.
So far I'm loving the PA1000, although after playing the 4X five nights a week for several years, there are some controls I miss. AND the EC5 pedal!
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding a Second Assignable Foot Pedal Function via MIDI Reply with quote

zionip wrote:
... momentary / latch foot pedal can be plugged into the Assignable Pedal port to trigger harmonizer on/off through Global - Controllers - Foot - Function - Mic Harmony / Double Level. ....


Now I know, why I was surprised that you found a function to trigger Harmony/On-Off.

With that function it is not possible triggering Harmony/On-Off like the function of Pa4x do with its Assignable Functions "Mic Harmony On/Off" or "Mic Double On/Off". Pa4x has this functions to really trigger Harmony and Double at the entrance of the Harmony/Double-block, while with Pa1000 using a switch assigned to function "Mic-Harmony/Double-level" only affects harmony/double-signal at the end of this block to minimum or maximum level, but does not switch on/off.

I think this function will complicate or destroy the fine tuning of the harmony and double effect, because harmony/double-level is actually a balance control, better assigned to an assignable knob.

In my opinion, assigning a switching function to this one creates major problems, because for Voice Presets it is not possible wheter to adjust sensibly the volume levels of general harmony voices nor individual harmony voices (different depending on the selected types) nor volume level for the double Voice Presets.
*
Real Harmony/Double-on/off with Pa1000 unfortunately only is possible with the panel button Harmony/Double. Would be a good idea to implement "Harmony/Double-On/Off" to assignable functions for knob and pedal with next OS-update of Pa1000.
*
If someone from KORG reads here - please CONSIDER THE FUNCTION "HARMONY/DOUBLE-ON/OFF" ASSIGNABLE FOR KNOB AND PEDAL IN YOUR NEXT UPDATE FOR Pa1000.

Otherwise, the instrument is not easy to use to comfortably switching on/off harmony/double in time-critical situations!
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