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Karma: Note priority

 
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Mersip



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject: Karma: Note priority Reply with quote

I donít know if this is the right forum for a question on KARMA, butÖ

I am playing Supertrampís School and there is a section where the piano does a series of runs, and over the top a Marimba joins in on the first 4 notes of the run, but with a different note sequence (eg piano plays A E A B; the Marimba plays A C E G). I have set this up on the Kronos by putting the Marimba through a Karma module, and then using Karma>Note Map to adjust the notes as desired (eg, when I play the E the piano sounds E while the Marimba sounds C). So far so good.

The problem is unless each key is fully released, the next key sounds the new piano note but repeats the Marimba note (ie if the E is not fully released, when the A is played, the piano plays an A but the Marimba repeats the C instead of playing the E). Itís almost like itís set on Monophonic with priority to the first note. This is not how the Marimba programme plays.

Iíve looked at the OSC parameters, but nothing seems to make a difference there, so I assume I am missing something somewhere in Karma. For example, does it have something to do with the GE Option I am using? Any thoughts?

PS: this is a really useful set up when you need to play different note sequences at the same time.
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Peter

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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... this is an interesting use of this feature. I don't know why it's doing what you say, could you check the KARMA Trigger Page and turn off "Quantize Trig" checkbox and turn on "Update on Release" checkbox for the Module you are using? See if it makes any difference.
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Mersip



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Stephen. Iíve tried what you suggested and it makes no difference. One thing I have noticed is that when I play the lower note and then the higher note, the new note doesnít play. However, if I do it the other way around (ie play the higher note first and then the lower one), the new note does sound.

The other thing is that when I play the lower note then the higher note, if I wait long enough, the second note sounds, but it is a good 2 se3conds after the first and quieter.

Does any of this help in working out what is happening?

Thanks
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What GE are you using?
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Mersip



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itís Preset 0000: Arp Model 01 Up/Dn.
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Mersip



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that Iím sitting at the keyboard, I actually think what I need is a GE without a sequence (if such a thing exists).

A sequence is of noes is running when I press the first key, itís just inaudible given the parameters I have set. As a result, the second key, if depressed while the first key is still down, is not registering.

Does a GE exist where the Ďpatterní is only one note - no rhythm or anything? If this were the case, when I press the key, it will register the note I am wanting each time (I think). Does this make sense?
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that what you're trying to achieve is pretty interesting.

I found the problem you're talking about. The problem seems to be that KARMA is registering your notes to E Chords. At least for me. So when I go from A down to E that works fine... but going from E up to A registers an Emaj chord and then an Esus chord which makes the GE spit out two C's (bc of the Note Map) instead of a C and then an A. In other words the first note of the Note Series for an E and then an E+A are both E(maj/sus) which the Note Map transposes up to C (or down to C, I don't know what octaves you're working with). BTW you should specify which octaves you're talking about. For instance you're obviously using A's from two different octaves for the piano as you can't transpose the same note to two different locations during a melody.
...well technically you could if you used that note as a Dynamic MIDI toggle switch for a transpose but that's too technical for the scope of this reply. But hey maybe that's what you are doing. In which case you would be a KARMA genius and prob wouldn't need help.

The problem should technically be solved by Update on Release but it's not working.

The other issue about there being a long delay before the note transposes to the correct location is super odd. Haven't found a way to fix that... I think it has something to do with the rhythmic note values.

I would have to explore the problem in the KARMA software to see if I can get it to behave the way you want. As for now I think your only option is to do some brute force programming and load four instances of that Marimba program into a combi and then zone each instance to the individual keys you're hitting on the piano. Then simply transpose the marimbas mapped to each key to the note you want.
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Mersip



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Charles. Your explanation is very helpful for someone who is only just starting to use KARMA.

In terms of octaves, etc, while I must admit to liking the idea of using a Dynamic MIDI Toggle switch (as if I knew what that was!), I admit Iíve cheated. What Iíve done is set up different timbres and Karma modules on different parts of the keyboard so I can play the different phrases. In the hope that someone might find this useful:

1. Iíve assigned a piano to Timbre 1 (Midi channel Gch) and set the Keyboard Zone to A3-D5. This provides the piano sound for the first phrase (the notes Iíll be playing are A3 E4 A4 B4 C5 D5 G4).

2. Iíve assigned a Marimba to Timbre 2 (Midi channel Gch), and set the Keyboard Zone to A3-A3. So now when I play the A3, I get the piano and Marimba both playing A3. This is the first note of the two different phrases.

3. Iíve assigned the Marimba to Timbre 3 (Midi channel 2); Keyboard Zone E4-B4; linked this to Karma Module B; and then used the Note Map to make E4=C4; A4=E4; B4=G4 and Ďremovedí the intervening notes (F4-G#4, A#4). This enables me to play the first phrase.

4. For the second phrase, I already have the first note assigned (A3). Iíve put the piano in Timbre 4; Keyboard Zone E5-C6; Pitch -12 (so it sounds the same as an octave lower. Iíve repeated step (3), using Timbre 5 (Midi Channel 3); Keyboard Zone E5-A5; linked to Karma Module C; and then used the Note Map to make E5=C4; G5=E4; A5=G4 and Ďremovedí the intervening notes (F5, F#5, G#5). This enables me to play the second phrase.

I suspect this is a complicated way of doing what I want, but other than the (relatively minor) problem Iím encountering of needing to ensure I completely release each key before pressing the next, the effect is exactly what I was after.

Is it possible to create a GE in Karma which is one note only (ie the pattern contains one note, no automatic repeats, and gets retriggered when you hit another key)? I think this would solve my problem.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it possible to create a GE in Karma which is one note only (ie the pattern contains one note, no automatic repeats, and gets retriggered when you hit another key)? I think this would solve my problem.


I just spent about an hour playing around with this, and the answer, sadly, is no. I wish it were possible to just play a real-time melody through the Note Map, but it's not currently possible.

Actually, the problem is that, when you play the second note without releasing the first, it becomes the second note in the Note Series that KARMA creates internally. However, playing the second note then retriggers the Note Series to start from the beginning, repeating the first note. There is no way to have a new note clear the previous notes in the Note Series.

(Update on Release doesn't really relate here. Update on Release controls whether releasing a note while holding others updates the Note Series or not.)

I tried every trick I could think of. So I guess you'll just have to play the phrase non-legato. Wink
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Mersip



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stephen

I really appreciate the time you have put into trying to solve this. Given your knowledge, if you can't find a trick to make it work I suspect there isn't one.

I guess I'll have to focus on improving my playing technique Very Happy
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