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Kronos - Digital Recording Questions

 
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nightplayer



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Kronos - Digital Recording Questions Reply with quote

According to the manual, the Kronos can produce a digital output with 24bit/48KHz audio resolution via USB, or the S/PDIF interface.
I want to record the Kronos on a computer DAW system.

My intention is to record and mix my projects on a computer DAW system using higher sample rates during the recording, mixing and mastering phases, and then export/bounce-down the finalized work to 16bit/44.1KHz.

Before I begin to ask my questions, I would like to say that I am sure that you are aware of the following simple math and its relevant meaning to the digital recording processes:

44.1 x 2 = 88.2
44.1 x 4 = 176.4

48 x 2 = 96
48 x 4 = 192

All questions (especially #2) will rely on the above math.

For projects with 24bit and a sample rate higher than 48KHz, my questions are the following:

1. Is it mathematically/conceptually correct to record the digital 48KHz output from the Kronos digital straight to the computer (no DA/AD conversions involved) to a project that has a sample rate set to ("n" x 48KHz), such as 96 or 192KHz?

2. by doing so, should I expect to encounter "non-optimum" results after bouncing the mix down to 44.1KHz? in other words, sould I expect to encounter any aliasing or mix-down bit-error related-issues, due to the mathematical fact that 44.1 is not a divisor for the numbers 48 or 96 (dividing those numbers lead to to results with decimals or fractions, and does not lead to full integer numbers. The reason why this is a concern to me, is the fact that decimals or fractions translate into bit-errors in the final mix-down from that sample rate that does not accept to be divided mathematically by 44.1 (without decimals or fractions) to 44.1KHz, in which they are expected to lead to producing unpleasant audio artifacts to the final mix (mathematically) that could lead to an overall unpleasant listening experience)?

3. What would be the case, if I asked the same question for projects that are set to "n" x 44.1KHz sample-rate (eg. 88.2 or 176.4KHz)?

4. Should I expect to encounter any problems as explained in question 2 for the setup in question# 3?

5. Finally and most importantly, should I expect any clock synchronization issues between the computer and the synth (kronos in this case) if the synth is output-ing its digtial signal at 24bit/48KHz and the computer is set to 24bit/88.2 or 24/176.4KHz)?

6. The same goes to: if the computer DAW is set to 24/96 or 24/192KHz?

7. At the end, if for some reasons none of the above happened to be a good method for recording to begin with, do you recommend recording the entire project (including vocals) on 24/48KHz with utilizing the Digital output of the Kronos?, or for the sake of better vocal recording and capturing, would it be better to set the project to a higher sample rate than the Kronos, and record the Kronos via it's analog outputs going through the audio interface's A/D converters?



Long story short:
===========
a- Is it possible to record the 48KHz digital output to a 96KHz or 192KHz project, , without any audio quality degradation at the final mix-down to 44.1KHz?

b- If I recorded the 48KHz digital output to a 88.2KHz or 176.4KHz project, , should I, or should I not, expect to experience an audio quality degradation from some sort at the final mix-down to 44.1KHz?

c- In case of "yes' to any of the above, which of the above recording setups do you recommend (88.2/176.4 or 96/192 KHz)? and why?

d- Should I expect any clock synchronization issues between the Kronos and the computer that will cause recording/sample synchronization problems?

e- At the end, if for some reasons none of the above happened to be a good method for recording to begin with, do you recommend recording the entire project (including vocals) on 24/48KHz with utilizing the Digital output of the Kronos?, or for the sake of better vocal recording and capturing, would it be better to set the project to a higher sample rate than the Kronos, and record the Kronos via it's analog outputs going through the audio interface's A/D converters?

Thank you, and my apologies for the long post.
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KRONOS-73, Montage-6, Jupiter-80 v2.0, V-Synth GT V2.0, Gaia SH-01, pa4x pro.
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CharlesFerraro
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Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 883
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos - Digital Recording Questions Reply with quote

nightplayer wrote:
1. Is it mathematically/conceptually correct to record the digital 48KHz output from the Kronos digital straight to the computer (No DAC's involved) to a project that has a sample rate set to ("n" x 48KHz), such as 96KHz or 192KHz?
To get the Kronos signal into your DAW via USB you'll need to use Korg's driver. In that case you won't be able to select a sample rate beyond 48kHz.

nightplayer wrote:
2. by doing so, should I expect to encounter "non-optimum" results after bouncing the mix down to 44.1KHz? in other words, sould I expect to encounter any aliasing or mix-down bit-error related-issues, due to the mathematical fact that 44.1 is not a divisor for the numbers 48 or 96 (the division process between those numbers leads to numbers with fractions, and does not lead to a full integer number, without decimals or fractions)?
You won't notice any difference. If you're worried about the differences, do some phase cancellation tests with different sample rates. As long as you dither you're fine.

nightplayer wrote:

Long story short:
===========
a- Is it possible to record the 48KHz digital output to a 96KHz or 192KHz project, , without any audio quality degradation at the final mix-down to 44.1KHz?

b- If I recorded the 48KHz digital output to a 88.2KHz or 176.4KHz project, , should I, or should I not, expect to experience an audio quality degradation from some sort at the final mix-down to 44.1KHz?

c- In case of "yes' to any of the above, which of the above recording setups do you recommend (88.2/176.4 or 96/192 KHz)? and why?

Thank you, and my apologies for the long post.

a- if you're talking about S/P DIF and not USB then you would have to use a specialized interface like a UAD Apollo to upsample the S/P DIF signal. You don't have to worry about audio degredation if you take the necessary measures. Your real worry is getting your mismatched sample rate into your project in the first place.

b- Again this is not a good way to go about doing things since most interfaces won't let you. If you don't slave your interface to the Kronos' clock or vice versa then you'll experience clicks from jitter. And you'll need their sample rates set to 48kHz to get them to sync. And then the project is forced to match with the sample rate of your interface. In plain english it can't be done unless you're using a specialized converter or an audio interface that'll upsample for you. New apollo's don't even take toslink S/P DIF signals either and I personally would avoid going from toslink to coaxial but I'm pretty sure Lightbringer did that recently.

c- pretty much "nope" to all of the above. I'd recommend recording at 48kHz since that's what you're stuck with in the Kronos unless you use the noisy analog outputs. To be fair the analog outputs are balanced and I use them myself. But the pristine quality of the digital out is pretty sweet, especially when it comes to something as tiny as being able to truly have a signal digitally panned dead center.
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nightplayer



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles,

Thanks a lot for your detailed and quick reply to my questions.
your reply answered many of them.
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