Korg Forums

[phelene]

I bought the first version of the Korg PA manager which I used maybe no more than a few times to update some sounds and styles when I first bought the PA3X (great tool). My computer died and I finally bought a new one and ask for the support of the Korg PA manager. Their answer was we up to version 3.2 and we don't support version one anymore just update it and pay another $135. When I point out that all I ever wanted wanted from it is to add a few of those nice sound that has been generously distributed from this forum they choose to completely ignore me. No answer, no discussion, nothing. If that is the level of support that can be expected from them, I actually don't know what to do.

[karmathanever]

That's incredibly disappointing and shocking customer service - I would have thought they could re-supply your version as a minimum.

Don't know what else to suggest - sorry.

Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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[phelene]

Thank you for the support

[musiccankill]

Hello,
I just checked their website and according to their F.A.Q. the upgrade from v1 to v3 is 70 GBP so i don't think they told you 135$ for the upgrade. Except if the current exchange rate for dollar compared to gbp is that high which then is the correct price for the upgrade...
Also v1 was discontinued years ago so it is logical that you can't buy a new license for v1 (or v2) like any program that gets a new version... (you can't officially buy a license for any older windows version for example from microsoft).
In addition , if you still have the old activation code (they can send you the old code again i think if you have the mail you have paid from as a proof that it is you) it would still work on the machine it was purchased for...
The license of korg pa manager is per personal computer which means that if you have a second computer or you change some of the core hardware parts of it you need to buy it again like you do on many other softwares and to say one specific, libraries on kronos are licensed per kronos ID so if your mainboard gets faulty or you have a second kronos you have to buy the license for the sound pack again...
Furthermore saying that you used it 2-3 times makes no change as nobody can identify if you really used it or not and more than that, it doesn't matter...Like if ,lets say, you buy a pa4x and you leave it in the box for some years and you then decide to use it but it doesn't boot you can't go complain to the distributor/service center/where you bought it from that the system was not used and demand a replacement!!!
So i don't think your request to them was totally legit.Yeah they could have been a bit more customer friendly from what you describe but we can't be even sure for that (at least me) cause we haven't seen the full conversation...
Just my opinion on the subject..
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus

[karmathanever]

[musiccankill]

[phelene]

The $135 is the current exchange rate plus international charges. If the PA Korg manager published all my email they would see that when I did buy the software one of my question was what happened if my computer died. Their answer was that if I supply the CPU and motherboard "picture" (sorry I don't know the correct wording) they will send me a new activation key. Now musiccankill if you have a Microsoft license for Windows ME or Windows 98 they might not support it but you can still get a copy from their site and re-install the software and further more they don't take a copy of your CPU and Motherboard . Regardless whether I used a few times or used it everyday what does that have to do with it. I play at church every Saturday and all I'm interested is if I push this button it gives me a style and press another it gives me sound and save it to my songbook. Whether you believe me or not is not important. What is important is that as a support group they completely ignore my email and that's not professional

[musiccankill]

Well last comment from me on this as i don't have anything more than that to add ..

You can still install V1 to any computer and nobody prohibits you to use the license you have bought but it only works for the original pc..
It is not a software companies fault if your pc dies..
You can ask them for the download link of version 1 and they will provide you a download link for it.I m pretty sure about that cause thats what happened when i asked for the version 2 download link to re use my license on my original pc when i did a format on it...
This is the same as downloading a cd/dvd image of any windows installation..
The windows installation without a license key is useless and you can currently only officially buy a license key for windows 10 which is the same as installing pa manager version 1 (from the link they will provide to you) but having no valid/bought license for the pc you will install it at means you will be able only to try it till trial period ends.Then only thing you can do is upgrade to version 3 (current version) by paying the upgrade fee (70 british pounds) and not the new license price (125 british pounds).
Also windows is NOT licensed as a per PC activation code..You can use the license key on ANY pc as long as it is installed only at 1 pc each time (you can install it on more but its illegal).So windows is not a perfect match for example.Kronos and its libraries is a perfect example as i have already explained in an earlier reply...

I personally find the korg pa manager policy pretty straight forward, logical and understandable one from any point of view (customer/business)...
I don't know what you mean about picture of mainboard/cpu though and according to policy i don't remember having read anything about that (reissuing a license from a dead pc license) and also i can't figure out a way that one can tell if a mainboard/cpu is faulty without having physical contact with it.

The way you described the "problem" in the first post is exactly what the policy written on pa manager web site says that you can't do on v1 and v2...

We all wish many things would be as we wanted them to be (not talking only about our beloved keyboards) but if we don't read the policies and the agreements of anything we do/buy/sign its not the companies fault if anything goes wrong and is written/covered in the policy/agreement....

Also korg pa manager doesn't handle songbooks (except if version 1 did but i think it didn't).So if i understood well what you want to do with it, you wouldn't manage to do it even if they had given you a new license for it...
Korg has a songbook editor free on their website for that purpose...

I am here (and from what i have seen all this time here a lot other members too) to help and give solutions to problems that are real problems/bugs...
Feel free to ask anything either public or by pm.

Wish you a good day!

Theo
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus

[phelene]

Just for your information (musicankill) the PA Korg manager support just email me and apologize for the delay in answering my email but they do not keep any copies of V1 or V2. I don't know which world you're from may be in Greece it's different but for the rest of the world when you buy a license for software it is stipulated that it must be used on one hardware at a time. So if your computer dies you can transfer it to another one. Maybe you only know so little that it's not worth wasting my breath on you

[musiccankill]

First of all i have never insulted you ok ?
So please stop with this attitude.
If you don't need help don't ask questions that are well explained from the authors..
I just read what they say on their website and spent my time to inform you to understand what is going on and how it should work..
I also added my personal experience about 1.5 year ago (when v3 was first released) that i needed v2 install and i had the installation sent to me without problems.
Also this software and many others too is locked per PC HARDWARE and that is known to any customer before they buy it.If somebody doesn't agree with that he doesn't have to buy it.If pc dies you can't transfer korg pa manager (you can do it only on version 3 free for 2 times as the F.A.Q. says) , you need to buy whichever version is available at the time again (with the discount for upgrading which was offered to you as you said in your first post too).
I know way more than you think but thats not what we are here to discuss.
Read how kronos and its libraries (the paid ones from korg store) work and come tell us again that you can transfer them if the mainboard dies with proof this time.I am sure you can't do that so if you value your time as you say you should listen to advice given to you from time to time...
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus

[phelene]

I do appreciate what you have told me and how it works. It makes no sense. You are trying to convince me that if I buy a license today and my computer dies that night I have to buy a new license. Think about it. What I'm saying is that when I buy something and it works for me I want it replaced because I do not want or need the upgrades and if the people who is supposed to support you cannot supply what you had they should find a replacement without cost. Have you ever been in a manufacturing industry where they still using DOS operating system and don't need any sophistication because what they have is all they need.

[musiccankill]

Well you would have all rights on you if you hadn't accepted that this is what it is as all of us users of pa manager have done...
Their license is based on the hardware of the computer and is issued as so and you have been told about that before buying it so there is nothing wrong from their side unfortunately...
So yeah if i had bought it and my computer died one hour later i would have to buy it again...I may have made a request if they could make an exception given the circumstance but i wouldn't be mad if they decline cause i accepted that when i bought it...
The same exactly Korg does with kronos as i tried to explain again...
If you buy a license for a soundpack for your kronos ID and your kronos dies , you have to buy it again for the new kronos cause that is how it is designed to work.
it is all about protection against hackers i guess in all these separate cases...
Now with v3 ( i upgraded and it is very good compared to v2 and i m sure waaaay better than v1 of course ) you can transfer the license if your pc dies cause it needs an internet connection to run so i guess it checks if license is valid that way.If you transfer the license it is now possible for them to disable it on the old pc...

Think of the other side too now, lets say you are the pa manager support and a lot of people come and say "Oh my pc died send me a new license for v1/v2 for my new pc" but their pc never died and they just sold cheaper a license to their friends or even for free or want to install free on more computers they have...You wouldn't know if they are telling the truth or not (most probably not unlike you)...

To give you an idea about how wrong some people think and do things, i first bought an "original" license through ebay and got sent a cracked version which the seller said is preactivated (i understood that i got scammed right away).I contacted the pa manager support and they confirmed that it is not a legit version so i bought the original software and paid again...Of course it is my fault not pa managers fault!
This guy on ebay would have used the support to get a lot of real licenses and sell on ebay for cheap if they were giving out new licenses to anybody that says that his/her pc died..So thats why i believe the license agreement is so strict and you have to accept it when you buy it...
Also i believe if we compare functions vs price, v3 should cost way more for what it does..
Maybe it is no interest for you but being able to copy a style from a set to another without worrying if the sound positions are already taken and having to move all sounds around and fix style sound positions manually by hand is a really big deal!I can mix 2 sets with it within 2-3 minutes..Where if i did it manually i would need from 10 to 50-60 hours depending on the sounds used and the number of styles!
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus

[karmathanever]

From all said above from phelene, it seems to be poor customer service.

1. I do not believe for 1 second that they could not send another copy of the old version unless they are pretty disorganised.
2. Supporting Phelene would certainly maintain good customer relationship and future sales.
3. If there is instantly no trust from the company who should have all the original registered details/name/address etc.. then that's disorganised.

This kind of annoying issue encourages people to find pirate software...

If they REALLY do not maintain copies of their own software releases, then at least they could offer a significant discount on the new version (perhaps reduce it by the cost of the old version - which is already in their bank account!!)

Hope this gets maturely and professionally resolved and my comments are purely based on phelene's posts above.

Good luck phelene
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[musiccankill]

Well this is only a customers point of view karma...
I already have explained all of 3 of your suggestions but let me do it again...
1)I don't believe they don't have the copy and if he asks they should provide it any possible way but they can't and shouldn't issue a new license...They aren't obligated to have a copy though available for the customers and little companies do as far as i know...If i buy something i m responsible to keep it safe not the shop that sold it to me...He can also find a copy of the last v1 pa manager on many 3rd party software websites.
2)It would but it would risk the business if a lot of people go like Phelene and say that their pc died.
3)Except the fact that companies in Europe are not allowed to store all these user info without the users permission (GDPR),even if they had them kept, what prevents any customer to act like i analyzed in my previous post (get a second license for their second pc or for their friends pc or even for sale on ebay)?

Well pirate software is killing companies and it kills more the small-medium ones.Thats why in my opinion they are so strict in their security...

There is a huge discount on the price of the new version for v1 customers.
It is 70 from 125 GBP!!!

In my opinion as Phelene accepted that the license is only for the pc he sent the MACHINE ID from pa manager to activate to when he bought it, there is nothing to "resolve" from any side.
The solution is there (update to v3 with the great discount) .
The support team replied what they had to reply based on pa managers license agreement as ALL companies do...

Of course if he has an official mail from any member of the support team that they told him , as he said here , that they will issue a new license if his pc dies then it is all another subject and even if it is out of the license agreement he should be given a new license at least once...
(thats not even 100% correct too cause license agreement > mail ..If you go to a bank and the banker says you will get 100% of money tax free but what you sign says else , guess which will be the legit plan used)
_________________
~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: PA5X 61 ,PA300, Triton extreme 61, Korg 707, Trinity plus

[karmathanever]

Fine - definitely not arguing with your views, feelings and opinions.
Your "explanations" are fine but not facts as such as you are saying "..I believe..." and "...should..." and "...if...." which is all cool and respected.

All my points are related to empathy for phelene who deserves to be treated like an honest customer - that's all.

It's a shame when you hear about these things... there is a massive rip-off in the world of software these days in many areas of business - that will always be the case sadly but it's getting better as people are more knowledgeable and becoming more aware.

I hope for nothing more than phelene being treated as an honest customer who is not asking for a "supported" version just merely a replacement of his "paid-for and licenced" version for his replaced PC - maybe at worst, with a small and fair administration fee.

...fingers crossed they do the right thing here....

Cheers

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------