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MuratE Junior Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2012 Posts: 91 Location: London
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: PA4X - STS transition |
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Hello all,
I have a pa3x but considering getting a pa4x (although I am waiting to see if it is worth waiting for the new pa keyboard as we don't know when it will be released).
One of the major issues I am having with the pa3x is the STS transition issue; depending on what effects etc are assigned to the sounds when chaging from one STS to another it will suddenly cut all the effects and sounds and creaitng a very ugly transition; or something it keeps the effect and the newly selected STS have the effect from the previous STS for a second or so before loading its own effects; for example STS1 wah-wah guitar with lots of effects and STS2 GRand piano with little or no effect: changing between the STSs will be almost terrible. Specially advanced players might have noticed this issue.
Does anyone know or experience this issue with the Pa4x? Hope my description of the issue is clear. I know that many have this issue with the pa3x but hoping this issue was rectified with the pa4x as the problem was mentioned many times before the release of the PA4x.
Thank you,
Murat _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/murateyi |
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Fransman Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 1095 Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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STS transition in PA4X is the same as in PA3X.
We're hoping for smooth sound transition in the next flagship (like in Kronos). _________________ Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style. |
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MuratE Junior Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2012 Posts: 91 Location: London
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Frans for your reply, very useful.
The cost of the Pa4x (76 keys) is lowered recently, it is around £2,440 at the moment and might be possible to find one cheaper. I have put my pa3x (76) for sale (strictly home use only) and hoping to get good money for it, so I can spend a few hundred on top to upgrade to the Pa4x BUT my main and only issue with the pa3x is the STS transition issue. If Korg have not rectified this problem on the pa4x then I am not sure if an upgrade is worth doing?
If I waited for the next flagship keyboards (when newly introduced it will surely be expensive) and if we find that the STS transition have not been rectified it will be very dissapointing.
I wish Korg made these keyboards more useable for life performance, perhaps reducing the functionality of the music sequencing and microphone effects etc. Professionals (in my opinion) uses seperate gear for this sort of things; a laptop for sequencing for example rather than the fiddly small screen to create a masterpiece and giving extra power to the things we use during live-playing. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/murateyi |
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Fransman Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Posts: 1095 Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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PA3X is a very good keyboard, but sound quality of PA4X is even better. I waited quite a while before I purchased one, but didn't regret it for a second. Waiting for PA5X is probably a good suggestion for you. Maybe in 2019 it will appear, but only Korg knows. Maybe smooth sound transition will be implemented, fingers crossd! _________________ Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style. |
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MuratE Junior Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2012 Posts: 91 Location: London
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I genuinely think Korg needs to get the basics right before going into things like sequencing or microphone effects. Under the circumtances, I would say Korg sell faulty instruments that don't work properly. Not sure if there are other known issues with these keyboards but STS transition issue is known for many years and not fixing this issue a keyboard after a kayboard is irresponsible.
I wish, if at least, they could tell us if the STS Transition issue will be rectified in the next keyboard so people who is suffering from this issue can wait until the next keyboard.
As it stands, we have no idea if this issue will ever be sorted out fully. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/murateyi |
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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1843
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject: Using Pa-Keyboard with/without soft transition |
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MuratE wrote: | ... STS transition issue is known for many years and not fixing this issue ... is irresponsible. |
In several articles (AnthonySharmman) it has been mentioned here that Pa-Series are not famous for excellent sound transitions in software level , but it's not noticeable if required attention in sound modeling and FX routing has been applied.
MuratE wrote: | ... we have no idea if this issue will ever be sorted out fully... |
With Pa-Series you can't sustain a playing note when changing a sound and it is a fact that multi-timbral sound transition is not supported in PaSeries until now like on Kronos. Soft sound transition is based on CPU and system speed where recent Pa-serie lacks. So this will change only when a similar fast hardware will be applied in next Pa model!
But in both keyboards - also in Kronos - all is depending of effects that are used when an STS/KbdSet sounds are changed. Effect will change instantly and although previous sound will remain active while key remains pressed, effect change will create sonic artifacts.
With current Pa-models prevent this to happen by using simple effects like reverb and also use sounds with soft attack and low release times.
If you change a sound during live performance and first sound is cutted off or the second sound will be recalled with noticeable delay that will be an issue that mostly concerns of sound design and Fx routing of KbdSets/STS.
Also it is recommended (repeating/quoting Anthony) to pay the proper attention in OSC, Amp, ADSR & FX routing, because some of them will disorder smooth sound transition :
- OSC that have abnormal release curve (99) in Amp ADSR
- PCG attack & release large values , especially +99 release !
- not sync LFOs when under QSC high release values
- an over-gained low threshold compressor/limiter
- Reverb FX time over 3 seconds value
- Overdrive FX send to delay FX with large repetitions
- Overdrive by itself was always an issue in all keyboards, try to avoid active notes when changing KbdSet.
- Pitch shift FX and modulators like talking modulator FX can also create issues in transitions.
Note: If a previous sound is muted then it's probably a matter of polyphony so check your style simultaneous midi events data that might exceed polyphony of a Pa-Keyboard (stop style and check sound transitions).
PS: Thanks Antony for the explanation and clarification in previous threads for this matter! _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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BR Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 1500 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: PA4X - STS transition |
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@MuratE,
I have Pa4X and I experimented the same issue.
If interested you can read this post. |
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karmathanever Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10400
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:33 am Post subject: |
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As has been said already, you can partially achieve SST with KEYBOARD-SETs but have to suffer the FX change issue.
I am sure any future model will have this like the Kronos at least - even my Casio has perfect SST!!
Cheers
Pete _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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