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boxx.dk



Joined: 23 Oct 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Another new user, maybe Reply with quote

Hi

I'm torn between Yamaha PSR S775 and the Korg pa700.

First, I was impressed by the Yamaha, but after having listened to a lot of PSR demos and covers, my exitement has subsided. In my opinion, the Yamaha accompaniment (styles) seems often very bombastic, where as the Korg is more muffled and therefore more workable/useful in the long run.

Any oppinion on this ?


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Biggles
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome

I auditioned the Korg and Yamaha side by side and played the same songs and used as similar instrument sounds as I could.

It was no contest, the Korg was better in every sound, whereas by comparison the Yamaha sounds and worlst still was built like one of their $100.00 keyboards.

If you are used to Yamaha then you are used to their operating system, Korg is completely different yet it is far more easily transferrable ie being a Korg user I can go to a Roland and very quickly find mybway around one.

I still play the occasional Yamaha keyboards and they are hard work getting
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: PSR-S775 vs Pa700 Reply with quote

boxx.dk wrote:
.. Yamaha PSR S775 and the Korg pa700..


A neutral rating naturally not is to be expected in the Korg Forum - accordingly, the comments of brand-loyal users are also personal.
Same will happen if you expect einen loyalen comparison PSR-S775 vs Pa700 in Yamaha-Forum.

Much more honest are reviews when someone really compares both instruments without feeling tied to any brand.
It is recommended to search for links where is compared PSR-S775 vs Pa700 (youtube).

Biggles wrote:
.. auditioned the Korg and Yamaha side by side and played the same songs and used as similar instrument sounds ..


Same is done with tests in professional journals, but that results in ratings, that both devices have a good, high-quality sound. Therefore extremely derogatory judgments about quality of sounds are ridiculous and does not help.

Individual listening experiences are subjective - so you have to decide for yourself which sound best suits you.

PS: I also would prefer the Pa700 - not (only) because of the sound, but mainly because of facilities and features (3 Upper Parts, full sampling, sound and DrumKits editing etc ...).
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MaximK777



Joined: 01 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I express my opinion. I chose between the Yamaha PSR975 and the CG of the P1000. The reliability is sure that the elapsence of the Yamaha is 100%. Sound for the way. I've compared in the store myself, and played both instruments. Yamakh is better than the piano. Distorny guitar Many write that Yamakh is better, I did not check, but believe. Other sounds, are either comparable, or the cage is better, or the crog is much better. The guitars are normal comparable. Violins are comparable. The organs in the kick are much better. Flutes, especially the panfethum in the cage is much better. But now I choose between Roland E-A7 and the cig PA700.
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boxx.dk



Joined: 23 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: PSR-S775 vs Pa700 Reply with quote

Hi

"A neutral rating naturally not is to be expected in the Korg Forum - accordingly, the comments of brand-loyal users are also personal."

No one is neutral. I did not expect that either.


"It is recommended to search for links where is compared PSR-S775 vs Pa700 (youtube)."

I sure have Smile


"PS: I also would prefer the Pa700 - not (only) because of the sound, but mainly because of facilities and features (3 Upper Parts, full sampling, sound and DrumKits editing etc ...)"

Thats pretty good arguments.


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boxx.dk



Joined: 23 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

"It was no contest, the Korg was better in every sound, whereas by comparison the Yamaha sounds and worlst still was built like one of their $100.00 keyboards."

Maybe the Yamaha has better piano sounds. However, everything is better than the piano sound on my Kawai K1 Laughing

For me, the Korg pa700/1000 is more pleasent to listen to than the Yamaha, but thats a completely subjective assessment.


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Biggles
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boxx.dk wrote:
Hi

"It was no contest, the Korg was better in every sound, whereas by comparison the Yamaha sounds and worlst still was built like one of their $100.00 keyboards."

Maybe the Yamaha has better piano sounds. However, everything is better than the piano sound on my Kawai K1 Laughing

For me, the Korg pa700/1000 is more pleasent to listen to than the Yamaha, but thats a completely subjective assessment.


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That was my finding of my own subjectivr trials.

The Korg had a richer more pleasant tone than the shrill, overbright Yamaha

Good luck with your choice
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NativeAngels
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Pa700 is great for its price, its not just the sounds and styles but you can fully edit everything else.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Pa700 vs PSR-S775 Reply with quote

Hello,
an error that often happens with sound comparison is to use instruments out-of-box, delivered with useless default settings of the final mastering effects. Korg often has neutral default settings for the Master EQ, the same settings by Yamaha (EQ, Compressor) mostly are justified unusable.

Sound comparisons are not meaningful as long as basic settings at the end of the signal path are worse. Unfortunately, few new users know and neither find the Master equalizer settings at Korg and even less with Yamaha. In many cases it is not known that in the mixer section with EQ not only the frequency bands of the parts are adjustable, but additionally with MEQ (Master equalizer) also the overall sound and with CMP (master compressor) the dynamics of the overall sound are controllable.

That a novice does not use these settings, does not know or does not find it - that is understandable. It is astonishing, however, that often even with long-term use of instruments, music is made with bad sound settings, because never experimented with the necessary settings.

Some musicans are absolutely enthusiastic if they would hear demos of professionals but then are disappointed when the same instrument at home sounds quite different than one heard it at the demo - and that even though the demo was made with the factory sounds.

In this case it is not very useful if one tries to achieve a better result via the Soundeditierung, via effects and trackparametesr, but is recommended to adjust correctly the sound controls at the output.

Mastering suite helps making the sound louder, clearer, fuller, and more polished. These effects apply to the final stage of the audio path, just before the audio outputs.

These are for Pa700: limiter and the master-eq, for PSR-S775: MEQ (master-Equalizer) and the CMP (Master-Equalizer).

If that is done, a sound comparison can be useful to determine which instrument sounds better - but is not useful before!
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NativeAngels
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you recomend what eq and limiting settings to bring out the best on the Pa700 from the internal speakers.
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NativeAngels wrote:
Can you recomend what eq and limiting settings to bring out the best on the Pa700 from the internal speakers.


Nobody can tell you what are the best settings to use.

All they can advise is how to set up and adjust the available features and Fx.

Once you know how to do the above, the best settings are those that work for you in the environment where you have your Korg PA set up.

Room acoustics will have a tremendous effect on what works and what does not. Change the environment and you should change the settings to suit.

It is a case of trial end error adjustments based on what you hear.

To get the best sound would require external speakers, a sub woofer, a multi band graphic equaliser and a spectrum analyser, but that is another matter.
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that I can give an honest review of the PA700...

I am a professional user who uses his arranger everyday in my business and I have been absolutely in love with the PA700 since I got it and since I figured out how to use it.

My experience with arrangers is vast and I have been using them for over 20 years, both in the studio and live. My current situation (and has been for over 10 years) is using my arranger to play at nursing homes. I perform up to 4 times a day, each about an hour-long session, and perform about 50 times a month.

My first arranger type board was a huge Technics SX-PR270 that I got in the mid-90's and I used it on many albums in my studio and even lugged that thing around (with the help of friends, since it weight about 150 pounds) to gigs. I played both the internal sounds and triggered via MIDI and it was a dream.

I bought a Roland E-09 in the mid-2000's and used it as the centerpiece for my band and also triggered external MIDI devices with it and it too worked flawlessly. I also bought a Korg PA500 but never really got into it and worked more with the Roland E-09 unit.

I then got into the nursing home music ministry and ended up buying another E-09, for a total of two of the same unit. One was a backup in case the other one died during a performance. Never once did either unit fail to perform (except for the backlit LCD screen failing (which was a common problem for Roland in that series, as well as the Juno-G series)). I still used the units live because I knew them inside and out.

In September of last year (2017), I purchased the PA700 (my serial number is under 140) and was likely the first person in the state of Iowa (USA) to get this unit. Once I learned how the OS worked, it has never failed me.

I rarely use it with an external speaker system in most of my facilities, but when I do hook it up, it sounds full and big. Yes, I have adjusted the Master EQ and Limiter setting. The EQ has a slight bump up on the high end because it does sound a bit muffled otherwise. I also adjusted the limiter so I do not blow out the speakers when playing louder because the acoustic bass sounds are that real sounding in the styles.

There are a couple of styles that I still like on the Roland E-09 better than what the stock styles offer on the PA700 and I have recreated them fairly well on the PA700. Most of the other styles either met or surpassed what I was using on the E-09.

Another thing to think about is that the PA700 sounds a bit dry on the lead sounds, so I added more Reverb to them to add more space.

Most of the music I play at the homes are Big Band oriented (1920's to the 1960's), but I also play some newer styles and have customized lots of them to play 80's music in different genres. I mostly use styles. but have also loaded an external Micro SD card with MP3 files so I can have backing music while I am setting up. This feature works very well. I also use the sequencer and have over 120 songs that I have programmed into the unit and they sound great. I have all of the MP3 files and sequences on the Micro SD card that I installed into the unit.

The main piano sound I use is one that you can find in this group somewhere and it is a Yamaha C5 variant. The stock piano sounds do not sound very good to me at all and so I went with the Yamaha piano instead.

The electric (lead) guitar sounds are very realistic, especially when utilizing the DNC noises on the buttons above the joystick. The distortion circuits mixed with Reverb and Chorus/Delay help with the realism. I have a number of custom lead guitar patches that are very realistic.

The Classical Guitar patch is fabulous, especially when you add more Hall Reverb to it with about a 3 second time to it. It really sings well.

I primarily use the Folk Sax sound as a lead, but layer it with a Flute and a Vibe/String sound, depending on the song and use a traditional harmony (ensemble) at times on the sounds.

The Pad buttons work great and I usually use a custom Tambourine/Finger Snap for two of them and then a String pattern and a rhythm guitar strum, depending on the song. These help the songs sound more full as the song builds. The only this I wish is that the Pad buttons could be lit up so you know which ones are actually activated.

The Steel Guitar was a mess to me and so I modified it to have a much faster attack and less of a swell and added Reverb to it sounds more real.

The Violin works well too, but I have had to add more Reverb to it to make it sound better in a solo situation.

The weight of the unit is just right and it is easy to transport. I have loaded up styles from previous PA models and the PA1000/PA4X to it to have more options for songs.

The joystick works well but it squeaks now for me, and has since it was about 2 months old. I do not control the joystick with my fingers, but rather with the upper left palm of my hand. I do not press down on it, but rather ride it with my upper left palm so I can make a more realistic vibrato sound for the guitars.

Songwriting using the sequencer is fairly straightforward. I have been using Korg touchscreen-enabled synths for years and the touchscreen makes things very easy. The OS is quick to respond and works very well. My only issue (unless I have missed how to do it) is that you can only have 1 song in the sequencer at any given time.

I do not use the Songbook feature that much but when I have, it is a bit cumbersome to set up right.

I have not used the sampler portion other than for loading in the piano sample mentioned above.

I also use the input as a line-level source but find that the Line level volume. even at the maximum, is way too soft compared to the overall volume to mix with everything else. I ended up using a guitar level input and add Chorus and Reverb to it, even though it is mono. I have found a slight problem with the input volume knob and it causes the input to not be right and when it is adjusted, it pops until it finds its way. I think that it is broken but since I do not use it much, it is not that big of an issue.

Like I said, I use this unit every day and the more I use it, the more I discover about it and the more I like it.

The sound of the PA700 sounds a bit thin compared to the doctored sounds of the Roland and even the Yamaha. When you add a bit of Reverb and EQ, the Korg opens right up and surpasses its competition.

With regard to key action, it seems fine, but it is light and the B and C keys, if played right after each other (like in a run and the like), they do seem to 'clack' a little. Maybe that is where the joints are for each section.

I have controlled external synths with both the 5-pin MIDI and the USB MIDI and it works just fine. When you insert a USB stick, it almost immediately detects it and you can access the approved content on the drive through the Media section.

Overall, I would say that I really like the PA700, as it works for me in my real world applications both live and in the studio.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject: Pa700 vs PSR-S775 - why not decide Pa1000 with Aftertouch Reply with quote

Hello
thank you for your extensive, well-founded and well-argued contribution.

In your years of experience with many different keyboards, I am surprised that you have not opted for the Pa1000 with a Aftertouch keyboard. Why you renounced this versatile and effective feature? For me Aftertouch would be the main reason to decide for a Pa1000 instead of a Pa700!

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. sound of the PA700 sounds a bit thin compared to the doctored sounds of the Roland and even the Yamaha. When you add a bit of Reverb and EQ, the Korg opens right up and surpasses its competition ...


That seems to be the point, why often people tend to Yamaha, because out-of-box the sound seems to be bombastic compared to Korg with its decent, neutral factory-settings.

If mastering suite ( Limiter / Master EQ) would be used to make sound louder, clearer, fuller, and more polished and would be memorized as demo-setting, playing with them for test in smaller music shops one would hear good quality of sounds, without connected external components (speakers, equalizer etc).

And after this settings - really sound comparison is useful to determine which instruments sound corresponds to the personal taste.
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of agree but if the other companies, right out of the box, have their 'tool' on to make their sounds better, wouldn't it be kind of nice to know that there is a board out there that keeps it 'real' so to speak?

I think that the biggest part of the Korg that I like is the fact that it is totally customizable so that you can get your taste out of it without any preconceived hype of the EQ and such.

The reason I use the Limiter is to limit the full sound coming from the unit at higher volumes because of the realism of the sounds. The acoustic bass, on certain notes and keys (mainly the key of "G") can overwhelm the speakers on the PA700 when it is played too loud. The speaker system in the PA700 is a 25W X 2 affair and only has 1 full range speaker per side. If the speaker system were more robust, say a 2-way design per side, then the bass and treble would be more separated and defined.

I also noticed that the styles I grabbed from the PA1000 seemed to be more 'hyped' in its high end than the stock styles on the PA700.

In real life, the sound of a violin, played in a rather dead sound-wise room, is naturally thin. Only when you either doctor it up with effects and EQ, or play it in a concert hall, does it sound full (at least in my experience). To be honest, my old 1994 Ensoniq SQ-R+/32 rack units still make a better violin sound than any other keyboard I have tried to date. The PA700 violin, with its DNC tricks, helps add to the realism and allows me to use it on certain songs.

I would rather have something raw and thin and build on it rather than have to try to take away from it because it was doctored.

With regard to why I chose the PA700 over the PA1000 - here a few different reasons:

1. Price - with the discount I got, the PA700 was right around $1040.00 USD.

2. Availability - I could get one right at the time I wanted it and the PA1000 took months after the initial announcement to actually see them available for purchase. Keep in mind that I had been using the Roland E-09 for around 9 years in the same homes I was playing in. I wanted a different sound for the songs I play.

3. I did not need all of the extra features available on the PA1000.

4. The reviews on the PA1000 suggested that it had reliability issues. That has been proven true in many cases.

With regard to aftertouch - I do not really use Aftertouch all that much, to be honest. It is not important to me. I would rather control everything from the joystick than pressure on a keybed. Additionally, I believe that the Aftertouch on the PA1000 is channel aftertouch and not poly aftertouch. Only then would I want to have aftertouch. I also own an Ensoniq VFX and a VFX-SD that have poly aftertouch. I am good there if I need it.

I have been playing for over 40 years and have rarely used aftertouch. I learned kind of 'old school' by using the pitch and mod wheels and joysticks that combine both wheels into one. I was trained on piano and pianos do not have aftertouch (unless you include the pedals, but that is more damper resonance than aftertouch anyway).

On a side note - I'd love to see Korg integrate KARMA in an arranger - THAT would be awesome Smile
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Pa700 vs PSR-S775 - why not decide Pa1000 with Aftertouch Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:
... if the other companies, right out of the box, have their 'tool' on to make their sounds better, wouldn't it be kind of nice to know that there is a board out there that keeps it 'real' so to speak? ..... ..


... with a good sound, a customer is not cheated, because the chosen settings remains in instruments one will get. On the other hand, if sounds with the predicates "raw, dry, sterile" are presented as they are not practised by the user later on, then the first sound experience with the instrument may be disappointing, although it would be unfounded.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. regard to aftertouch - I do not really use Aftertouch all that much, to be honest. It is not important to me. I would rather control everything from the joystick than pressure on a keybed. Additionally, I believe that the Aftertouch on the PA1000 is channel aftertouch and not poly aftertouch ...


For me Aftertouch is the most important control after velocity, because I rarely have a hand so free - especially in time-critical situations - to use controller via modulaltion-wheel or joystick.

PolyAftertouch I never tried, but I like to play with channel Aftertouch without having to take the hands off the keyboard to operate a modulation wheel or joystick (also are channel-controller).

With Korg, most DNC sounds can be operated well with channel Aftertouch (Bend, vibrato, HP Filter, resonance) and I would like to have more additional control options with keyboard, e.g. to pull vibrato effects with lateral pressure movements or to allow filters to enable with them (maybe sometime Arrangerkeyboards will be delivered with it - I would wish such an additional control)

Aftertouch allows me many controlling possibilities of rotary, swell, modulation and layer control and so for me it is the most important distinguishing feature compared to the Pa700.
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