Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Kronos vs Montage as a masterkeyboard..
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject: Kronos vs Montage as a masterkeyboard.. Reply with quote

Just a hypothetic question
If you dont look at the internal features
But only at the controll section..

Which of these 2 keyboards is best for controlling VST and external sound modules as the hearth of a setup?
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Korg PA4x, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, Kurzweil PC3X
www.keyszone.boards.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leonh
Full Member


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 183
Location: Hadleigh UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
19naia
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 977

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Montage has better audio connectivity over USB.
32 audio channels over USB for rendering audio tracks on a computer.
https://youtu.be/5orjucDcoyI
Kronos does how many audio conmections over USB? 10? 16? or 2?

If it comes to old fashioned midi controlling, it all depends on the control surface layout you prefer.
Montage has the button panel on the right side of the surface panel.
Kronos has less button action going on but has the means to use what controls it has for multiple control modes. Montage does that also.

Depends on what you are controlling. I know Montage comes well suited to certaind DAW suites.
But Kronos has a registry for storing a good number of controller setups for controlling external devices or DAWs. If you want to use Kronos only as a controller.

In both Kronos and Montage, you can customize the control functions to external devices. Maybe Montage may offer an easier time with preset and stored controller setups being matched to given DAW’s for ready control.
Like a registry that has DAW systems listed by name in Montage?
Kronos has them listed by number... or is it listed by empty user name slots?

It is hard to know enough about Kronos and montage, plus all the variety of DAWs and external devices they can control.
Spectrasonics with all their award winning prowess, have only just started the work that makes any controller the best controller to have with Omnisphere. Seems they are heading to the point where the best controller for Omnisphere will be any and all that match wha synth model you want to control.

Of course Korg products will more easily be controlled by Kronos -
and Yamaha products will more easily be controlled by Montage.
Also, Yamaha latest MODX comes with a DAW system included, and i assume that applies also to Montage.
The included DAW is most likely a better match to Montage than it would be to Kronos.
If DAW focus is on USB audio connectivity between the controller and the computer, then Montage is better.

Which DAW is best suited to Kronos?
Assignability of control functions, over internal or external control mode setup
is what makes the difference but also means extra work getting what setup you want.
After that, it is up to the User’s preference wether Montage control surface or Kronos control surface is the workflow style they want.

I look at a sequencer as a controller in itself. A virtual controller if you have the creativity to set it up. And Kronos Pattern RPPR gives a whole other kind of sequencer utitlity to work as an automated controller.
Sequencer can be filled with organized scenes that carry the control messages you want and have sequencer automatically send the messages hands free in an orchestrated stream. And not include any internal sounds or note data if you don’t want those in the flow.
And when you use Pattern RPPR side of Kronos sequencer, you turn each RPPR active note on the keybed into a control that can run a complex orchestration of control functions all in a single press of the note key.
It takes work to set it all up, but the complexity of automated control schemes you can get working for you in Kronos sequencer, is amazing. And have it work in tandem with realtime hands on controls.

And Karma is a midi control aspect that Montage does not have.
Montage may have its own way of midi wizradry that can match Karma, but it is a whole other workflow style.

Maybe Montage also has a midi sequencer. And maybe can do complex control automations?
I am not sure either if the RPPR type of function exsist in Montage sequencer.
Also, Montage sequencer is not a match for Kronos even though Montage can do a worthy amount of sequencer function. It just does it in a whole different way.

Both Montage and Kronos are too deep and flexible to rate generally across the wide swath of devices and virtual suites you would or could control with them.
Montage is better choice for Audio connectivity over USB

If Kronos control surface does not have enough controls for your most control-intensive performance, chances are that adding to kronos a second control devices is a better option than switching to Montage.
You could end up with Montage and still end up needing an added external controller device.

Montage button system on the right side of the control surface, may have some advantages over Kronos in external control mode, but i suspect i can get a compact controller or iPad app to add to kronos, to make up the difference.

Montage and Kronos are both built to work with multiple devices that all send control messages. You will never get the most out of Montage or Kronos if you do not pair them with other devices that add control surface and function to the integrated multi device setup.

Maybe Montage and Kronos working together is the best of both worlds?

Montage for USB Audio connectivity for sure.

But for my needs, it is way too much to have both big rigs when i can add a few small assignable-control devices to Kronos and have them expand into new control possibilites.

It really depends on what you want to control and what control layout you prefer.
By the time Kronos alone or Montage alone seems like they are not enough,
it is most likely a matter of multiple control devices being needed in the setup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that summs it up pretty much...

Tough i need to add :
-Led Feedback on sliders and (real) encoders is a big thing for me..
-The big advantage of the yamaha arps vs karma is that they are more straightforward and much easier to create.
-in kronos all 16 channels are assignable to the keyboard, on montage only 8.
-the montage has no real sequencer on board, only a scratchpad with no edditing at all

I dont see much use for having both at the same time, i think another kind of keyboard might add more then 2 of these workstations...
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Korg PA4x, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, Kurzweil PC3X
www.keyszone.boards.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GregC
Platinum Member


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 7040
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not qualified , of course , since I don't have a Montage

But I always state, your ( or anyone's context] context should be said.

Such as:

- gigging musician, casual or steady

-Casual home keyboardist.

-Serious song writer with history of songs and plans for more

-Beginning Song writer.

-Backing tracks for business use

-movie soundtracks, scoring

Likely a few more.

Possibly more accurate input would be gained.
_________________
Kronos 88. nanoPAD2. Roland FA-07, MBP, UR44
Achieve your musical dreams Smile
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kronoSphere
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 300

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, I know that one can compare only things that are comparable but it is very strange that, as an exemple, the arpeggios of some Yamaha apps (Synth Arp & Drum pads - that is no more available) are instantly very easy to use and very well musically thought in comparison of the Arpeggios inegrated in the Kronos. I cannot really understand why they are so unmusical. Karma is very interesting but still now always so difficult to be used rapidly and so less intuitive. The Kronos lacks in this segment.
_________________
trees are going fast.
https://myspace.com/lairdeparis
http://lairdeparis.wixsite.com/lairdeparis

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Triton Extreme / Roland VP770 / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad 2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GregC
Platinum Member


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 7040
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
of the Arpeggios inegrated in the Kronos. I cannot really understand why they are so unmusical. Karma is very interesting but still now always so difficult to be used rapidly and so less intuitive. The Kronos lacks in this segment.


I have read that before, and from long time K owners.

I enjoy working Karma into my originals. They spice up my creativity.

My Original " Going Places" esp bass/drums relies heavily on Karma/scenes.

IOW, I don't have any problem using Karma selectively in my original songs.

If I did mostly cover tunes, maybe Karma wouldn't work as well
_________________
Kronos 88. nanoPAD2. Roland FA-07, MBP, UR44
Achieve your musical dreams Smile
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
leonh
Full Member


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 183
Location: Hadleigh UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said before for working with DAW Montage is better because it was designed for that Kronos was designed to work on its own (Workstation) as far as arpeggios or phrases are concerned it is very easy to make patterns with Montage but if you want something unique Karma gives more choices .That is my experience having owned Montage .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Poseidon



Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always choose very carefully what I buy.
And I must say here that Korg Kronos does it all very well as a master keyboard.
I don't own Montage, however last June 2018 I bought Korg Kronos 88, and to even futher supplement my DAW setup ( Logic pro X ), I am going to buy 61 key sooner or later.
In my case I don't see Montage as a better DAW option due to lack of Optical/Coaxial digital out.

"The king is dead, long live the king" (as cited in SOS, by Gordon Reid)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
I am not qualified , of course , since I don't have a Montage

But I always state, your ( or anyone's context] context should be said.

Such as:

- gigging musician, casual or steady

-Casual home keyboardist.

-Serious song writer with history of songs and plans for more

-Beginning Song writer.

-Backing tracks for business use

-movie soundtracks, scoring

Likely a few more.

Possibly more accurate input would be gained.


Lets say :
I haven’t gigged in a long time, my daytime job is to time consuming
Which makes me an advanced home keyboardist with song writing aspirations.
Maybe in a few years, i want to do some gigging again. But just for fun, nothing high end.

Altough, in general i love setting up when learning new songs, for one man band type of performances... either using drums and arps or an arranger as backings... i don’t sing.. so i try to transfer many songs into an instruemental version.. recognisable but also authentic..

While my question was meant as a generalistic question.. i will describe my setup.. i will be using the kronos(or montage) in combination with a ketron arranger module, my macbook/mainstage/logic with a rich collection of software instruments, and my modules, Intagra7, Gemini, motif XS rack(which will be obsolete when choosing Montage) and Rev2 rack.

Also have a modx, which i use to travel with and combine with an ipad. Big advantage for ke personally is that having a montage would allow me to use those performances on the modx to, but thats not the question. I want to know which one would work best as center of my setup..

Financially it should be possible for me to sell the kronos 88(orriginal version) and the XS rack, and buy a Montage 8 for the same money.
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Korg PA4x, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, Kurzweil PC3X
www.keyszone.boards.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Drummond
Junior Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 65
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montage has fixed midi channels! Each one of its 16 parts it permanently tied to a midi channel from 1 to 16 and you can't change that. Take that into consideration!!!!
_________________
Korg Kronos 88 (150gb+3gb), Alesis Fusion 6HD (60gb+384mb), Hammond XK1c, Moog Slim Phatty, Access Virus B, Roland JP8000, Oberheim Matrix 1000, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha Reface DX, Alesis Vortex Wireless, Roli Seabord Block, Compac Univox II, Casio MT600 and PT82.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jimknopf
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3235

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kronos wins hands down as masterkeyboard!

The far and wide only advantage the Montage has, is the better DAW integration for recording the device itself.

But masterkeyboard functionality is mainly about midi functionality and flexibility. And here the Kronos is much more flexible, with variable 16 channel routing, plus being able to use KARMA both for internal and external sounds in sequencer mode.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - halfway useable Korg Prologue with limited tuning issues - Rhodes 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Cubase Pro 9.5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
benny ray
Platinum Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Kronos wins hands down as masterkeyboard!

The far and wide only advantage the Montage has, is the better DAW integration for recording the device itself.

But masterkeyboard functionality is mainly about midi functionality and flexibility. And here the Kronos is much more flexible, with variable 16 channel routing, plus being able to use KARMA both for internal and external sounds in sequencer mode.


+1
_________________
K2 Kronos 88, Mojo 61, Korg CX3, Roland RD 2000
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drummond wrote:
Montage has fixed midi channels! Each one of its 16 parts it permanently tied to a midi channel from 1 to 16 and you can't change that. Take that into consideration!!!!


Only for midi in..
As a masterkey, you use mostly midi out..
i can assign any midi channel to any part for midi out
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Korg PA4x, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, Kurzweil PC3X
www.keyszone.boards.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Kronos wins hands down as masterkeyboard!

The far and wide only advantage the Montage has, is the better DAW integration for recording the device itself.

But masterkeyboard functionality is mainly about midi functionality and flexibility. And here the Kronos is much more flexible, with variable 16 channel routing, plus being able to use KARMA both for internal and external sounds in sequencer mode.


Arps can be used for external to on Montage

Sure midi routing is more flexible on Kronos..

But montage has more then just better integration for recording(fully functional usb audio)
- knobs and sliders have led indicators
- better interface, the kronos definately shows his over a decade old DNA for ease of use.
- the new DAW controll mode, (os 2.5) is quite flexibelle
- i like the 88 keybed(personal opinion) better then my Kronos.

Sure the Kronos still has quite an edge over Montage in other parts..
Like its flexibill sound engines its onboard sequencing ..

But i am not convinced its that much better as a masterkey..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Korg PA4x, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, Kurzweil PC3X
www.keyszone.boards.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group