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Original motif to kronos sampler comparison?

 
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Original motif to kronos sampler comparison? Reply with quote

I don't know about the rest of the motif's but I use to own a original motif 6, the sampler on it was amazing and provided rich depth and saturation that I CANNOT reproduce ITB, I can get 90% of the way there with heavy treatment with plug-ins but it's just not the same. I told someone I am planning on buying a Kronos because of the on board sampler and thinking it will provide as good of a sound as the motif and their response was

"Regarding the Kronos; the onboard sampler isn't going to give you any kind of sound' or character. Any modern sampler is going to reproduce nearly perfectly, whatever you put into it"

I mean sure its going to sample what I put into it but there's got to be a certain amount of depth and saturation that occurs like the original motif has, is there anyone that can shed some light that has tried both?

BTW I'm mostly talking about sampling vinyl but other sources as well
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IAA
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Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you technically mean by
Quote:
depth and saturation
?

Are you describing bit rate, distortion, stereo vs mono, sample rate etc etc

If you know what the difference is from a perfect replica of the sample source then Iím pretty sure the Kronos can apply similar artefacts.
Ian
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAA wrote:
What do you technically mean by
Quote:
depth and saturation
?

Are you describing bit rate, distortion, stereo vs mono, sample rate etc etc

If you know what the difference is from a perfect replica of the sample source then Iím pretty sure the Kronos can apply similar artefacts.
Ian


I don't think it's bit rate, distortion it could be but subtle even ordered harmonic distortion, don't think its has to do with the sample rate

what I mean after sampling is there's this depth and saturation/amplification that sounds so amazing and not thin upon immediate playback with no effects and yes the artifacts are extremely pleasing and have so much texture, more so then I could ever recreate in my DAW and believe me I've tried with countless of the best plug-ins and can get kind of close would say 90% but really the sound is actually not in the same ball park, using 3 saturation plug-ins console and tape with Saturn and its tone faders I seem to bring a little of that out but really its not the same but close and just dry it's laughable

it kind of made me feel better when the guy I was talking with said he considered the motif a fairly modern sampler also and it would be playing what I put into it with lil character, which I know first hand is simply not the case, to me its a huge difference in sound and texture, I think he also said he never used the Kronos and I don't think he's used the motif so it's just one of those situations where you tell somebody something is happening and there like yeah no, it doesn't do that haha
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IAA
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Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the samples you were listening to were normalised - I think the Motif allowed you to easily do that? It might explain the amplification of the signal. Otherwise if theyíre your own samples non normalised and with no FX and at the same sample rate and bit depth, the only thing left is the relative AD/DA conversion of the instruments!
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAA wrote:
I wonder if the samples you were listening to were normalised - I think the Motif allowed you to easily do that? It might explain the amplification of the signal. Otherwise if theyíre your own samples non normalised and with no FX and at the same sample rate and bit depth, the only thing left is the relative AD/DA conversion of the instruments!


it wasn't the normalization, although I did normalize from time to time the actual depth and amplification/saturation of the sound was present at all times, and when normalizing in my DAW it sounds like crap(thin, no character) before and after normalization, just like the sample sounds great before and after normalization on the motif.

yes they were my own samples coming directly from my turntable mixer, so when I got back into making beats and doing everything ITB I was taken back how awfully thin and weak the sampling was

BTW I just ordered the kronos 61, they're on back order and placed an order on the 6th and should be in next week so ill have mine in a couple weeks and will update the thread with my thoughts on the sampling, I'm sure it'll be great
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IAA
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Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís great, this forum is a great resource, so once youíve tried a few things reach out and folks will be along to help.

Check out some of the video demos by some f the power users on this site to get you going.

Regards

Ian
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do!

I think In the back of the motif when you crank up the input Gain thereís a level of saturation that occurs and gives off a great sound along with whatever circuitry thatís there
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artcutech wrote:
Will do!

I think In the back of the motif when you crank up the input Gain thereís a level of saturation that occurs and gives off a great sound along with whatever circuitry thatís there


Looking at the schematics, the Motif uses a two stage op-amp per channel. What's interesting is the first stage is directly connected to the input. The input padding occurs after the first stage and before the second stage. This means it's possible to overdrive the first stage but have the sampling volume correct into the A/D.

In the Kronos, the padding occurs before the op-amps.

I suspect the difference in the application of the padding and possibly the balanced vs. unbalanced circuit would be the difference.

Geo
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geoelectro wrote:
Artcutech wrote:
Will do!

I think In the back of the motif when you crank up the input Gain thereís a level of saturation that occurs and gives off a great sound along with whatever circuitry thatís there


Looking at the schematics, the Motif uses a two stage op-amp per channel. What's interesting is the first stage is directly connected to the input. The input padding occurs after the first stage and before the second stage. This means it's possible to overdrive the first stage but have the sampling volume correct into the A/D.

In the Kronos, the padding occurs before the op-amps.

I suspect the difference in the application of the padding and possibly the balanced vs. unbalanced circuit would be the difference.

Geo


What up Geo!

thanks for the insight, I'm biding with this guy who's across the country right now for a motif in excellent condition, although I just ordered the Kronos I'm really familiar with the motif and would mostly be using it for sampling but other stuff as well, but also using the Kronos which ill be sharing with somebody and leaving it at their studio

all this time I've been trying to recreate the sound the motif gives off I'm like I'll just buy it again, I started making music again about 2years and 2months ago and really tried every which way to achieve a hardware unit sound ITB, and I can get really close with most soft synths and other sounds, the sampling has been good and decent, but a fail as far as in comparison with the motif(hoping the Kronos will be just as good, i'm sure it will)

I noticed you own Omnisphere and some NI, I also own both Komplete 11 and Omnisphere, I think Omnisphere has the best dry sample playback as far as any plug-in I own(editing is non existent), Kontakt and form are a close second, but even Omnisphere just cannot match up to the juicy, lush, warmth and grit of the motif imo, prob has something to do with it being a hardware sampler as i'm not sampling into the other plugs but recoding into my Apollo and loading and playing back, and don't get me wrong it's not like i'm a Yamaha fan boy, halion 6 comes in third imo out of the plug-in samplers I've used and was really disappointed with it's dry sample playback compared to the motif
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the Kronos does not add colouration to the samples themselves, in the way that the Motif might be doing, there is plenty that can be done to the sampled sounds using the wide range of Kronos effects, when the samples are played. Not only that, but the samples can then also be re-sampled with those effects, as a sample-based Program, or when used in a Combi.
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Artcutech



Joined: 27 Oct 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
Although the Kronos does not add colouration to the samples themselves, in the way that the Motif might be doing, there is plenty that can be done to the sampled sounds using the wide range of Kronos effects, when the samples are played. Not only that, but the samples can then also be re-sampled with those effects, as a sample-based Program, or when used in a Combi.


Unacceptable haha j/k

Good thing I just finalized the deal on the motif, Iím in a way actually more excited about it coming than the Kronos only because I know what Iím getting as far as the sampler and it has the DX expansion card, iíve only
played with the Kronos 2 times and absolutely love it but there will be a good learning curve which I understand and am happyin taking the time, but right when the motif comes I can get down to business and bang out some beats as long as everything is functioning properly 😞 Iím sure it is itís listed as in very Good condition and that everything function properly, but iirarely buy anything used or open boxed ever so finger crossed

Iím sure the Kronos sampler is just as good and Iíll report back after doing a test back to back, maybe the motif does have a special and unique sound, Iím happy I just bought it again, it really disgusted me when I found out the montage didnít have an onboard sampler, and Iím hoping Korg doesnít go In the same direction, but even if they do Iím happy that I got a kronos, Iím sure itíll beat my expectations as far as the sound it gives when sampling
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